Mind Your Heart
Welcome to "Mind Your Heart," this cozy corner of the internet where Trina Deboree and Emily Reneé —your real-life Lorelei and Rory Gilmore duo—come together each week to chat about everything from mental health to the daily nuances of life. In each episode, we peel back the layers of topics like anxiety, depression, PTSD, and eating disorders with warmth, understanding, and a touch of humor (because otherwise, this just sounds depressing)!
Trina, an educator turned entrepreneur and mental health advocate, joins forces with her daughter Emily, a mental health coach and anorexia survivor, to share their journeys and insights in a way that feels like a heart-to-heart with old friends. The goal? To spark conversations that truly matter and to create a space where laughter meets healing.
Let's navigate the ups and downs of mental health together, making each day brighter and each challenge a little lighter. Grab your emotional support water bottle, put in your headphones, and join us while we mind our hearts for chats that comfort and inspire.
Mind Your Heart
Shattering Beauty Standards: A Raw Discussion
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TRIGGER WARNING
Body image, weight, eating disorders, and health can all be sensitive subjects for some people. In this episode of Mind Your Heart, we discuss these topics from the perspective of women who have dealt with the ups and downs of the effect of societal norms on female body image.
If you feel that these topics may be triggering, we encourage you to skip this episode or watch with/listen with a trusted friend. Our number one priority is your mental health. Please take what you need and listen to your instincts during this episode.
In today’s episode, we get deep into the topic of body image, self-love, the ‘why’ behind our insecurities, and the effect our society has on our emotions toward our physical appearance. Trina opens up about how she has felt insecure about her body image from a young age and experienced negative self-talk when viewing the podcast episode on YouTube when it first went live. She asks Emily, a recovering anorexic, how to approach self-love and kindness and what that looks like in our world.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
Beyond Beautiful Amazon Affiliate link: https://amzn.to/4d0zBec
Influencers Emily follows that are open about self-care & body image:
Mik Zazon: https://www.instagram.com/mikzazon/
Gabby Male: https://www.instagram.com/gabbymale/
Jamie Pandit: https://www.instagram.com/justjamiep/
Spencer Barbosa: https://www.instagram.com/spencer.barbosa/
Bree Lenehan: https://www.instagram.com/breeelenehan/
Camilla Lorentzen: https://www.instagram.com/camillalor/
Julia Parzyck: https://www.instagram.com/fitfatandallthat/
Kaitlyn Moore: https://www.instagram.com/sass.and.cellulite/
Jaden Sparrow (Cyclical living coach): https://www.instagram.com/find.your.flow_/
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Looking for some FREE coaching from us?! Click this link and submit your questions!
Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mindyourheartpod/
Watch the Podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@mindyourheartpod Follow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@mindyourheartpod
Follow Emily on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/confidencecoachem/
Follow Trina on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trina_deboree/
Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your favorite corner of the internet where we chat about all things mental health. I'm Emily.
Speaker 2:And I'm Trina. Together, we're like your real-life Lorelai and Rory Gilmore. Each week, we'll bring you real conversations about the world of mental health and we will peel back layers on topics like anxiety, depression and much more.
Speaker 1:We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff, the everyday stuff and everything in between. So grab your emotional support water bottle I know we have ours. Find your comfiest chair or keep your eyes on the road and let's get into it. Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Join us as we mind our hearts and hopefully make minding yours a little easier. Welcome back.
Speaker 1:Hi, hi, now I'm yelling.
Speaker 2:Before this.
Speaker 1:We were testing our audio and Jake and you were saying that I was loud sometimes.
Speaker 2:You are not loud. It was a one time that you were loud.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where I said no, which is like.
Speaker 2:So, monica of you, that's true. So I think I had no problem. It's pretty on brand for me, yeah, yeah, where I said no, yeah, which is like so, monica of you, that's so I think that I had no pretty on brand for me. Yeah, yeah, I actually laughed and thought that was funny, okay, so, um, I thoroughly enjoyed that part, okay, yeah, so we um should we like introduce ourselves each episode, maybe because I feel like I was thinking about this because I'm like whenever I'm listening to nick vial and he's like I'm your host, nick, and then he goes.
Speaker 1:I'm like I kind of feel like we should do that too, not just assume that everybody knows from the beginning.
Speaker 2:You're right, all right so.
Speaker 1:I'm Emily and I'm Trina and we're your hosts for the Mind, your Heart podcast. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we're happy you're here to mind your heart podcast. Yeah, and we're happy you're here to mind your heart with us. We are happy that you're here and we are a mother-daughter dynamic duo and we actually have a guest today. We have sweet daisy may tonski. I was like we do yeah, it's invisible. Yeah, hi, daisy. So we've got daisy here, my little grand fur baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, hi so if you're watching you can see her cute little face perk up.
Speaker 2:She's so cute, yeah, anyway. So let's get started.
Speaker 1:Today we are talking about body image, body image, self-esteem, self-confidence, and we want to give you a little bit of a trigger warning before we go into this episode, just so that way we can give you a heads up about the content we'll be discussing. We'll be talking about body image, weight, which can be sensitive for many people for different reasons. We understand that they can be triggering and we want to prioritize your well-being first. So if you feel like this discussion might be too difficult for you, please feel free to skip this episode or listen with a trusted friend or a family member, somebody who can support you. And, yeah, remember that your mental health comes first.
Speaker 2:Yes, your mental health always comes first. We aim to create a supportive and safe environment, and we want you to take care of yourself. That's really important to us, and at any point you feel overwhelmed or triggered, it's perfectly okay to step away and take a break. Please reach out to a mental health professional if you need support. There's so many different things that are available, so many more than ever before. So that's very exciting. Thank you for listening, and let's take care of our hearts and our minds together.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, while you're looking like your eyelashes are so long, really, yeah, they look like you have extensions.
Speaker 2:Okay, so kids used to say that to me when I was little. I mean when, not when I was little when I, when they were little, they were little, I was teaching and I remember letting this little girl, such sweet little girl like, pull them so she could see for herself that they were real and, but the thing is, as I've gotten older, that doesn't last, like they don't grow like they did.
Speaker 2:I used to have really long eyelashes. Are you using a different mascara? Um, I have like a combo mascara going on right now. They look long. Good, because I. That was like one thing about my body. Speaking of body image, one thing that I liked about myself was that I had long eyelashes and that my eyes were green, which is more of a rare, you know, in this very brown-eyed dominant culture. Yeah, I was like, yay, my eyes are green and I had long eyelashes eyelashes. But as I've gotten older, like I said, they feel like they're fading away, like they're not like they were. So I found a good um mascara and I guess it's working right now.
Speaker 1:It's really good. Thank you. Yeah, that's exciting. I mean not that they ever look bad, but I'm like they look extra long right now. Well, thank you?
Speaker 2:yeah, I'm gonna take that as a compliment. And do you see how I took that as a compliment? And. I didn't put yeah, I didn't put it myself down or anything like that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah that's something that um. I talked about. Well, I think I feel like I mentioned Teresa in every episode.
Speaker 2:Shout out to one of my best friends.
Speaker 1:Teresa, um, but a little while ago we were like talking about like compliments and stuff and I like tended to like kind of be like oh yeah, well, and like make some sort of almost excuse for like why it maybe wasn't true. Or and she was like why don't you just say I received that? And she's like I'll do that too. So now, every time, like if we talk and she says something nice to me or I say something nicer to her, we're like I received that, thank you, and then we just keep going. I like that yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that could be a really big help to me. Yeah, because I have a very hard time accepting compliments. Yeah, the thing that's interesting is the eyelash part like has been been told to me so many times and um, and then I felt good about, so it was easier to receive. Yeah, it's the things that like this is this is silly, but I was meeting with a friend of mine online and I have had this infection on my eyelids. I know it's so annoying. That's like scaly, itchy, and it's like been really annoying, very itchy, like I just want to scratch my eyelids off and it's finally going away. Like it's finally you can't see it anymore.
Speaker 2:It I'm still using the cream. I'm going to follow that through for a few more days. Yeah, but, um, but so I haven't been. This is the first time I've worn makeup in like a week. Yeah, and she's like you don't have any makeup on and I'm like, no, and and she's like you look great without makeup and I'm like what? Because it's not something that I feel about myself, and so I, you know, get worried and the older you get, the more you're like, oh, but you can see brown spots, you can see lines, and the whole list goes on and on, yeah, and so then I like second guess myself. All right, so let's, let's. Are we going to talk about highs and lows at the beginning.
Speaker 1:Okay, yeah, I think we should okay so we're thinking that we would start each episode with a high and a low. Um, the way that I normally do this in my small group, like at church, is I'll say like you start with your low so that you can end on a high note. Oh yeah, so, um, you want to go first? Or you want me to go first?
Speaker 1:um, I can go first, okay, uh, yeah, my low for the week like this is, yeah, I mean like as I'm sure everybody listening can probably guess, we batch episodes, so, like today we're filming four different episodes. Um, so, as things will go on like, we're going to be talking about our highs and lows, but they'll be from, like, the past few weeks, yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, so yeah, I guess my biggest low is probably I had a like upsetting thing happen with my longtime like best friend of 20 years, and so I feel in a way as if I lost a friend and that has been like really hard and upsetting and like also I haven't been able to concentrate, like I just. And the interesting part is that I feel like, like you know, as life goes on, you go through different seasons with different people, and people have told me that before Friends that were like ready to kind of let me go, and I was so devastated, so devastated by that and I I mean I understand more what she was saying now, but I didn't understand that and I was so upset.
Speaker 1:But like I. What's the thing that people say? It's like you have people in your life for different seasons, different reasons. What's the other one? I don't know, in like a lifetime maybe, I don't know. I don't know, but there's like different.
Speaker 2:But for me, I don't want to ever let people go.
Speaker 1:It's really hard for me to let people go well, I think that that is something that you and I talked about. Yeah, like, because I also have been experiencing this similar thing and according to my expert in the stars, teresa, she said that relationship stuff is like changing right now, like that's like a common theme, okay, which I was like Makes a lot of sense to me, I hear you, but it's like the expectation of friendships and like their duration is not something anyone ever really discusses. Because it's like and this is what I was telling you, because like I'm like you in that way too that I'm like I am loyal, like I want to, I'll be by your side.
Speaker 1:Like I am here until the end. Loyal like I want to, I'll be by your side. Like I'm here until the end. Um, but it's like that.
Speaker 2:Like some people, they're they're, I mean they're just not like that, which is not a good or bad. You kind of feel like I mean, I, I'm like I want a best friend for life yeah, that's how I feel too we're gonna grow through this and we're gonna go yeah, and and maybe, maybe eventually we will have some kind of communication about it. I don't know. I just know that like you have to allow yourself to go through the feelings, but like it almost feels like grief, feelings of grief, but I'm not even Ambiguous loss.
Speaker 1:Ambiguous loss, it's basically something like when it feels like a loss, when the person has not died, but it feels like. But it feels like a loss. I don't know what the word is.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um I but I'm like still kind of stuck in the anger phase. Yeah, like I I'm I'm starting to move past that, but I still am a little, because I it just feels so, it felt like so out of left field and so hurtful, that yeah, so that's my low and I, yeah, that's my low. Do I now tell my high, or do you tell your low and then I tell my high?
Speaker 2:No, I'll just tell my high, okay, okay so my high is that I am a huge fan of Hugh Jackman. In fact, when I got divorced I actually considered changing my name to Jackman or McConaughey.
Speaker 1:Who was also in the movie. He was one of the Deadpools.
Speaker 2:I thought I heard his voice Like. I was like, was that McConaughey? I really did think that it was so okay, so that's interesting. So he, I didn't notice that, but I'm not, I'm still like. I'm like die hard, hugh jackman yeah um mcconaughey has faded, unfortunately for me well, he's happily married yes, and hugh jackman is divorced, yeah. So I was like, yes, I mean not that I'm happy about divorce, but yes, yes, I'm not that I'm happy he got divorced. But yes, yes, not that I even yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyway, there's a possible shot.
Speaker 2:There's a possible shot. So he, I love him. I went to see him in the Music man. I got to sit in the front row and it was like you know, they're doing their little number in the beginning and you don't know that he's on stage. He's like sitting in the train and you don't recognize him. And I was searching, like I was like looking at all the people but I did not.
Speaker 2:I don't know how they did it, because all of a sudden he stood up and he it wasn't like he was there before, yeah, and in a in the whole crowd is completely silent and I go like really loud in the theater and I was sitting on the front row and he, like they just carried on like I didn't do that. But he looked right at me and winked and I was like, oh my gosh, I thought I was going to die. I left that show and cried. I started crying because I was like, and then I found out that he was actually outside signing autographs and Nanny and I left. I know I felt sick to my stomach.
Speaker 1:That actually hurt me just then, when you said that.
Speaker 2:I know I was so upset so it was just such a magical time Like that was one of my favorite memories and I love him. And so he's in a movie Deadpool Wolverine with Ryan Reynolds, who I also really like, and the two of them are so adorable together and it's all over social media and even by the time this comes out, it'll probably still be yeah.
Speaker 2:Because the movie just came out when we were filming it, like yesterday, yeah, or the day before, and so it'll still be going, at least in a week or so. Yeah, let's hope so. So yeah, that was my high. I was going to see Deadpool Wolverine by myself. I had a delicious junk food fest and I highly enjoyed myself.
Speaker 2:I was laughing, even though there were parts that I was laughing and no one else was in the theater I'm like I don't care, because I just think ryan reynolds with his quick wit is just yeah he's so funny he's so funny he's got good comedic timing I think so too, and he just like, even if you're in a bad mood. I also love that ryan reynolds is so open about his mental health and like his depression.
Speaker 1:I haven't really seen that.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, he's very, he's really good about talking about that I mean I already loved him anyways.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I'm just making a little bit more.
Speaker 2:It's really cool, like yeah, he talks about that and yeah, so I just love that's been my high seeing all the things with Hugh Jackman and Ryan Reynolds.
Speaker 1:Yeah, daisy's trying to escape.
Speaker 2:All right, go on.
Speaker 1:So my low well, my low has to do with kind of losing a friend as well that's been like and it was unexpected. Yeah, been like it and it was unexpected, yeah, and felt a little like. I felt very caught off guard. It didn't seem like a situation where that was gonna happen. Um, but yeah, in the world that like I grew up in with social media and stuff like, I'm used to like being able to see somebody like view my story like yeah, um, so like that is weird. But then, like noticing that the person like has unfollowed me, like on all social media, I was like, oh, okay, like this is like yeah like done, done yeah so, um, it was hurtful and like really sad.
Speaker 1:I was angry and like yeah, I don't know, like I had opened up the space for us to talk about it and I just kind of been ghosted. So, yeah, I don't think I've ever that's ever happened to me in a friendship, like I've lost friends but it was never like just like being ghosted.
Speaker 1:So, um, yeah, that was my low, definitely. Um, I think my high was probably. So this past week, when all that was happening, like I was definitely trying to like get some rest because I was so tired, um, but on I think it was Thursday, I was like you know what, like I'm gonna do like a little self-care day, like I slept in and then I went to go get coffee at this new coffee shop that opened up near us, um, and then I went to our library and it was so cute like it was just like it's so clean and like it's big and um, I didn't even know that like some libraries have like a sheriff, just like posted up there, yeah, like just sitting in the front lobby, like just checking, like not doing anything really good why?
Speaker 1:I guess for safety reasons, because it's a government facility. I don't know, that's weird.
Speaker 1:I was like all right, I mean she know, that's weird. I was like all right, I mean she looked nice, so okay. I was like okay and um, and then like on the outside, like on the lining of the whole library, there was like these like cafe booths, basically so like that's where I sat. Yeah, that's cool. Um, and I like got my library card and I was like excited about that because I've been reading a lot more lately. So I was like I'm gonna go in and get my library card and they gave me one that like goes on your keychain, and I was cool about that so yeah, that was, that was my high.
Speaker 2:Yay, yeah, that sounds like a good high for the library that you I mean I need to go. I haven't been to a library in a, and it's such a magical place, so I'm like what is wrong with me?
Speaker 1:I need to go to the library. So nice, I enjoyed it so much.
Speaker 2:Oh, and then that same day I went to um, I got back to rumble boxing, which is like, uh boxing like workout class yeah that's cool, but I love that's when you were like I'm, I'm, whatever to rumble, and I was like yeah, ready to rumble, like I thought you were fighting. You had called me while I was like I, I'm ready to rumble.
Speaker 1:Like I thought you were fighting, you had called me while I was like I had already like started putting on my wraps, yeah, and I like didn't answer. So I texted you and I was like I'm at rumble. And you were like you're in a rumble, yeah, and I was like no, I'm not in a rumble, I'm at rumble boxing.
Speaker 2:I misunderstood and I was like what, yeah? And I was like what a weird way of saying I'm in a fight with someone. Yeah, so I don't know, anyway, okay. So today, okay, we did our highs and lows. Yeah, we're ready to talk about body image. It's this piece of hair.
Speaker 1:This, yeah, it's like tucked weird. Okay, better Okay.
Speaker 2:All right. There we go.
Speaker 2:So I think the reason that, like I thought this would be a good one to talk about, was because I was very like, when I saw the video that we did of our first recording session, I felt like, oh my gosh, my arm, I look so fat, I look so bad. And I like, really, my gosh, my arm, it looks so fat, I look so bad. And I like really like started beating myself up. But I've been doing a lot of mindset work with Teresa, also with you and I was like, no, I'm not, I can't say these things about myself and I need to just get over it because, first of all, it doesn't even matter, it doesn't even matter, it doesn't even matter.
Speaker 2:And, secondly, like the like holding yourself back because you don't feel comfortable with your body is, um, a shitty feeling, is a bad feeling yeah it's a bad feeling, and so I started thinking about, like, where that comes from, why I feel that way, or like how hard on myself I've been, or how that's directly impacted you, and also, like I have questions for you because you've done a lot of work on this. I have questions about, like, how you talk about this. Is it ever appropriate to talk about weight? Is it ever appropriate to talk about, like, how you look? Is it a bad thing to care about how you look, like all these things that I wonder around? Um, body positivity? Yeah, because, because I'm like I know I've been listening to Beyond Beautiful- which will have the link to yeah, in the description.
Speaker 2:And I've been listening to the audio version. I actually the audio version. The narrator is such a huge part of an audio experience and I'm not in love with her.
Speaker 1:I wonder if it's the actual author or not, because I feel like the author is from like a different country.
Speaker 2:No, then it's definitely not Okay. Yeah, she the author, the narrator, I don't know. Just the way that she says some things I'm like I wouldn't read it in my head like that, like it. Just it's grating on my nerves. But I also think that part of it is she talks about like different times in the world, like in society, and I grew up in, I mean, when I was born in the 70s and then I grew up in the 80s and the 90s, basically.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't remember a lot about the 70s. What I remember is Cindy Crawford, kate turlington, and, like all these supermodels that were absolutely beautiful and very, very thin and that being the like standard picture yeah, yeah and even and my mom was very much about like what she looked like and how she looked.
Speaker 2:I mean my grandmother. I feel like my grandmother. I feel like my grandmother gave. I feel like my grandmother taught my mom that her only value was based on her looks, and I I realized that as an adult. Like I, my grandmother, I put her on a pedestal for most of my life.
Speaker 2:I thought she was the most amazing person ever. I loved her so much. She taught me about God. She rescued us when my mom and dad got divorced. They took care of us and they loved us. We spent a lot of time with them. She helped me learn how to read. I have dyslexia. She paid for a tutor. She read with me every single day. She was very involved. They were very involved grandparents, and so I thought they were the greatest. I still think they're the the greatest. Yeah. However, I did learn as an adult that the damage that my grandmother did to my mom and how much pressure she put on my mom to always look beautiful and like that was there's so much more worth to my mom than just what she looks like For sure, and I don't even know if she knows that. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And so that is like something that I realized and I'm like where does this come from? And it came from. I know I watched my grandmother do that. I watched her do that to my mom. She told my mom to stand up straight. She would. I don't remember her doing that to me. I don't remember her telling me to stand up straight. I don't remember that pressure from her, but I definitely saw her do that to my mom. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it felt like it got worse when she was older, like when, because she lived past 100. Yeah, and I felt like, and the things that she would say to my mom like my mom, because she was adopted, that she should be grateful, and things like that used to make me, that made me really angry at the end of her life, because I'm like you're the one that should be thankful, like you got the gift of my mom as your daughter.
Speaker 2:Like that is such a gift and and so it just that felt really frustrating. But I just felt like she put a lot of pressure on her with weight. She put a lot of pressure. She's very thin too, like nanny's, you know it's very thin, and but she would walk around. I remember this is where the pressure I felt came on me. She would walk around. We would be at a department store and she would pick up like a dress and hold it on the hanger and then cinch it at the waist. So she never looked at clothes that weren't completely cinched in with a very skinny waist. And that's what I did. Like that's what I was like, okay, you have to have a really skinny waist. I mean, I remember when I was a kid she's like hold your stomach in, and like I learned how to walk around, I have my stomach held in right now Like I learned how to walk around.
Speaker 1:I know I remember you telling me that when I was younger too, that you're like, if you do it for long enough, you won it for long enough, you don't even notice it.
Speaker 2:yeah, I know, but like that's so uncomfortable yeah, why would you tell someone? I will tell you it's definitely um, giving me like those top abs, um, but I'm like that's uncomfortable and why should that be an expectation that you walk around holding your breath? Basically, yeah, because that's kind of what it feels like and um, so it was like I just felt like it was always a big deal and I mean, I can't imagine growing up actually in your lifetime though, with social media, and I think would be even harder. So I know where some of that comes from for me. And I also felt like I don't know, I don't think my mom meant for me to feel this way, but I felt like the ugly duckling of the family, like I remember hearing her say one time and this is on a, on a recording she said Trina doesn't look anything like me and sometimes I'm like she just I just she doesn't look like me, she doesn't. She said something like that about me not looking like her and, um, as if, like I don't know where this child comes from, like she doesn't have my beauty yeah and my looks and I, I, I just remember I've heard it multiple times, because I've heard that recording yeah I had that tape I
Speaker 2:still have that tape somewhere. Yeah and um, and I'm like, well, that was hurtful and did I hear that? When I was a child, I felt that way. I felt that way even with my mom and my brother, when it was just the three of us, because, um, I feel like he's a really attractive guy and she's so pretty and I'm just like, and so that is, that sucks. That's a really crappy feeling, it feels bad. And then she would even say things to me Like she wanted me to model with her and we would do these modeling things. And I never felt like I didn't feel comfortable. Yeah, I didn't want. How old were you? I was pretty little actually. Yeah, the first time I modeled with her I was little, like four or something like that. Um, but I, I don't remember that. I remember being like in that awkward, like yeah, 10, I don't know. But.
Speaker 2:And then I remember modeling in which we used to be called Moss Brothers. It was a department store and I didn't really want to do it. I remember really not wanting to do it. I loved clothes and stuff like that. Like I was really into clothes and fashion and things like that. But I did it and then I came home like later on that day and I had a friend over and that friend and I were in my bedroom joking around with each other. I was in like eighth grade, around with each other. I was in like eighth grade, maybe maybe ninth grade, like something like that. And um, and I was like getting ready to go get like us some drinks or something like that. And I got up and I was like and I said to the friend and like, if you have little ones in the room, plug their ears because. And I said fuck you. Um to my friend, yeah, as a joke, because, like, we're teenagers and teenagers often cuss because they're trying to like figure themselves out.
Speaker 1:I remember in fifth grade I, like, had to walk the field because I got caught cussing so much.
Speaker 2:oh, that's funny. Um, so I said that and I didn't actually talk like that very often, and I never heard my mom talk like that. I don't think I've ever even heard her say that word, ever I had a dream that she said that that's funny.
Speaker 1:The other day Like that, she was just like saying fuck and I was like all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because that's not like her. So I opened the door to my room while I said that and she was standing there and she was like, oh Trina, and she started crying and she was so upset, she was so mad and I remember going into her room and she wanted my friend to leave. She wanted her to leave. Right then she blamed it on my friend. She said that she was a bad influence on me and I was like and she's like, and I was so proud of you when you were modeling and I was like what, what does that?
Speaker 1:have to do with. Yeah, it was like I did something that she was proud of.
Speaker 2:But then I spoke in this nasty, terrible way and you took it all away. And I took it all away and I was like, first of all, the only thing that she could be proud of you for was based off of how you looked, yeah, and that she was not proud of you for the way that you acted, for the way they act, in a way that I spoke and I was like, um, first of all, if anyone's a bad influence on anyone, it would be me, on my friend, because I'm the one that said it. So why? You know, I'm the one that said it, she's the one that heard it, yeah, and it didn't feel like a big deal to us because we were joking around but um, but eighth grade, yeah, so nanny got really mad.
Speaker 2:Whatever I talked her to off the ledge, like she didn't make me make my friend, yeah, but um, but she wasn't happy that I did that, but it was, I don't know. It's just stuff like, yeah, the pressure was, yeah, I just felt like, and then I have always put that pressure. I put that pressure on myself. I felt uncomfortable in my body. When I was like a teenager, I was really self-conscious about my thighs and probably my butt. Now I lived in a time where it wasn't. We didn't have Kim Kardashian. Unfortunately I wish.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because then I would have felt better about the lower part of my body. I did feel confident enough. I had like a good stomach because I held my stomach in all the time.
Speaker 1:So I felt confident with that part of my body, but also like a good stomach is. Yes, you're right.
Speaker 2:You're right, it's another thing, it's all relative because it was good for the 80s, it was good for the 90s, yeah, so um, it doesn't mean you have a good stomach just because flat yeah, it doesn't.
Speaker 1:I mean it doesn't mean it's good or bad, it's just a stomach like, it's just part of your body and that's part of what um beyond beautiful talks about is like very much so kind of like neutralizing, like your stance on yourself, because there's a lot like the body positivity movement has become really big over the past decade, um, which is like love yourself and like feel great in your body and like that's great, like, of course, like you want to feel like that, but it's also unrealistic to expect that that's just going to be like how you always feel, yeah, that you just like love and feel great about every part of yourself, because that's just not, it's just not realistic. Yeah, but like what? Like we should be. Also, that's like ignoring things that maybe you actually do feel like. If you do feel uncomfortable about something, yeah, then like you're just kind of masking it with whatever else.
Speaker 1:But, um, I think, like with thinking about like your body as a neutral thing, like just as a actual, like anatomy, um, it shifts things so much, even when I I when I was in Bali for the retreat and we were talking a lot about like our cycle and more about like why things happen and like how they happen and like what's connected to this and that Now, every time I get my period, I'm like this is so cool, cool, like my body is like literally like shedding something and starting a new. Like it goes through this cycle for 30 days where, like, men go through hormone cycles 24 hours, so, like for women, like we're in a cycle for like 28 to 32 days, like our whole cycle happens over basically a month, whereas a man's cycle happens over a day. Like no wonder there are things like it just explains things. Yeah, and I'm also like man, like women are badass, like that's wild, like it just makes me appreciate those things more. Whereas, like, when you think of it as a negative or a positive, it it's like, oh, I'm in so much pain which, like I get horrible period cramps, so like I don't love that part, but they're just like neutralizing it into, like what it actually is.
Speaker 1:Like your stomach is a stomach. Your stomach is something that holds food and digests and allows you to have energy. Like it goes through this process you digest your food, it out and then you start over again. Like it's just it's like a holding ground for your energy. And like, when you think about it like that. It's like, well, how can I be like it's good or bad, like it's something that?
Speaker 1:keeps me to survive. It's something that holds holds energy for me.
Speaker 2:It feels like that's like a I feel brainwashed, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, for sure. I mean, we live in a world and this is what I was going to say. When you're talking about Grandy is like she grew up in a much more like oppressed version for women.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when, like women, were only known to like do things just for men and how like it appeased men. Yeah so, like her systemic view on like a woman in general was a lot more warped than it is now today. Like now, things she would say today would be like she'd be canceled on the internet. Yeah so, but it's just like it's not. And that's something that the book talks about too is how a lot of these things are ingrained. Yeah and it's like generational yeah, and it's a systemic issue, it's not just like it's like the value of women from the beginning yeah, all along and just seeing stuff on a magazine.
Speaker 1:Like the women you see on magazines are not plus size models most of the time like, unless you're like picking up a different kind of magazine, that's specific to that. But then like, why does that have to be specific to that? Like there's nothing that shows anybody who's in like a normal I don't want to say normal, like in a, but it's kind of not.
Speaker 2:It's like not representing a variety of bodies.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Or even a variety of skin colors.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or a variety of nationalities, like it's really typical a very thin white woman. So there is like so much wrong with that picture, yeah, than even just your body, yeah, because I don't know. And then I'm like, do I like with this, like shift in, like looking at a variety? Because I think about like what has been considered beautiful along the history, and like supple, curvy women were considered beautiful at one time, and so then you wouldn't have to worry about your stomach or your thighs or your butt or whatever Like that was considered. You were considered wealthy and prosperous, and so, and like how much that's changed and how that shifts our view.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like, do I? And then like how it impacts like your health? As far as your health too, what's healthy, what's healthy for your body? What like where's your heart at its optimal, you know level and all those things. And because then I get confused, because I'm like I know Also, like I feel uncomfortable when my body gets to a certain point, even when you were just talking about cycles, like when you stop having that, when you're no longer having cycles, you feel it's like a worthless kind of feeling.
Speaker 1:But your body's still going through a hormonal cycle.
Speaker 2:It's going through a hormonal cycle, but it's no longer doing what you feel like it was originally intended. You're no longer creating a space for life.
Speaker 1:But somebody has put that in your brain Because, like as a woman, your original intent is not only to have a baby for life. But somebody has put that in your brain because, like as a woman, your original intent is not only to have a baby. Yeah, like you, while you and.
Speaker 1:I want to, like you wanted to have babies, like since you were young, and I want to have babies when I get older, like that is not my intent for being on the earth, like just because I'm a woman, like they're like just because I'm a woman, like they're like. Take transgender women, for example Like their specific purpose for being on the earth is not to have a baby, it's just to exist, it's just to be so. Like when you're in a different cycle of your hormones, when it's not shedding the lining, you're not bleeding like you're.
Speaker 1:You are doing exactly what your body's intended, because that's how you were created yeah our bodies are created to go through menopause at a certain age and still continue to change and do different things. Yeah, and I think that's the thing that uh is so disappointing about this societal outlook is that they the idea of change, yeah, is bad. Yeah, like the way that our bodies change and mold, like it happens every day, every single day, some part of us changes, like, if you really think about it from like a microscopic lens. Like we shed so much skin during the day, Like hair falls off, Like we learn at least one thing during the day which, like I'm sure we learn. Thousands of things like that go into our brain. Like there's so much change that's happening, but like the world is like afraid of change for whatever reason, because it doesn't look or feel or we don't know.
Speaker 2:We're not in control, so but like as a woman, woman like your only purpose is not to have a baby no, you're right, and it's so funny to even catch myself in that mindset, because I don't think that is the only worth of women. So it's interesting to see how much of that is ingrained in your brain and you don't even realize it, like even this just now. I'm like I'm shocked to find myself saying that, um and I'm, and I'm like because that's not how I consciously feel, but on some level have I felt that way or somebody's told you that, or someone's told me that yeah, or that you're not relevant as you get older and I mean, have you seen the things that they've been saying about Taylor Swift?
Speaker 1:They're like she's the most successful woman in the world, but she's childless, she's unmarried.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what they're talking about.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's crazy to me and also that's a.
Speaker 2:She has done so much. That's a lot that's happening as a political stance as well. For sure. Like the fact that we're going to say that somebody like that person that's childless doesn't have any value is absolutely outrageous. It's just absolutely outrageous. Yeah, and because that's not what makes you. You're right, that's not what makes you have value, and some people choose not to have children, and and that's their choice.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's that's your choice, yeah it doesn't mean that there's not.
Speaker 2:And I guess if we continue that kind of thinking that's the same kind of thinking that my mom grew up with that that's you're just telling them that you're only valuable for, for that one thing, and I mean, and then you have, yeah, which is really sad and upsetting, yeah, so um, which I feel like is like a whole nother for sure.
Speaker 1:I mean, like this specific episode could be a million episodes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, be a million. So I think that okay. So I know you said you had like specific questions. Well, I do because, like, is it a bad thing to want to be, to want your body to be like? I know, when I have gone through different phases of life, like becoming a mother, like watching your body change so drastically was like alarming, because your boobs change, your stomach changes your legs, your butt, whatever. Even with you, like I didn't even really have a stomach. People thought I had a miscarriage, because they're like where's your stomach? And I'm like it's all on my ass.
Speaker 2:And so like I didn't look nine months pregnant, which was frustrating because you know you have an image in your mind. You're like I want this cute little stomach, I want everything else to be thin and just a cute little stomach. Yeah, and that's ridiculous. And so you watch your body change and then, after the baby comes, and then you're like oh my gosh. Then you like I didn't like myself, Like I didn't like my body. I'm like this looks terrible. And like I didn't like myself, like I didn't like my body. I'm like this looks terrible. How am I going to do? Like, how am I going to? I think that's sad to feel that way, like I just, you know, held life and it's like a process. But sometimes, when you see influencers that like have a baby, and then they bounce back two seconds later, first of all like later.
Speaker 1:First of all, that, like well, we have to take into account that a lot of the time when we see that these people are in a different financial standing, they have different kind of schedule, they have a lot of different kinds of help, um, they have a lot of different resources that someone on a day-to-day doesn't have. So so, because I know who you're talking about right now, yeah, and I can picture it Also.
Speaker 2:She's very young. That's another thing to take into consideration.
Speaker 2:Your body definitely bounces back at a younger age than it does at an older age. Yeah, although I think it's interesting because it felt like it took me longer to like get back to where I felt comfortable after I had you than it did with Jackson and Jackson I gained 60 pounds, so I went through every size, like I started off with extra small maternity clothes and went all the way to extra large and couldn't fit Like at the end, was just walking around in my robe and just wanted to be in the pool all the time because I was so uncomfortable. And that's the thing, though I'm like is it like I don't feel comfortable with where my, like where my body is currently? Am I? Is that a bad thing? Am I supposed to be embracing who I am and what I am? Or is it all right to have goals for my pants not to be as so tight and my stomach, or um?
Speaker 1:yeah. So my question, my follow-up question to that would be why don't you feel comfortable? Because my pants are tight, so why don't you buy a different size pant?
Speaker 2:I don't know. I guess I don't want to, but why? Why? But why, I don't know? Because I guess I don't feel comfortable. I don't feel as comfortable in my own skin. But why don't you feel comfortable in your own skin? I guess because I feel like, um, my, like my. I feel like my face looks more bloated, my arms look more bloated, my stomach looks more bloated. I guess for that reason.
Speaker 1:But why is that? What's making you uncomfortable? Because, like what I'm a lot of the time, what I like hear when people are like, well, I just like want to feel this way, or I want to feel this way, like, my follow-up question is always like, why do you want that? Is it because you want to? You would feel more comfortable if you looked a different way, so people would look at you differently and that you would fit a certain image and that you wouldn't have to go to the cashier and buy a size bigger pant and you wouldn't have to look them in the eye while you're sizing up to whatever size you're in. Or is it because, like something physically is painful, or like something is physically causing you to not sleep, or like, yeah, you can't definitely have had that which, like happens with certain foods, for sure, but it's like, but are?
Speaker 2:also when I if I have gotten to, even when I was pregnant when I hit a certain, certain weight, my back starts hurting I can't sleep. My back hurts, my hip hurts um.
Speaker 1:I don't really feel like that's happening right now so like, the thing with that, too, is that, like, whenever we like get larger or we like have weight in different areas, that's different from where we were you're still trying to exist in a larger body with your smaller body practices. So, like you saying, like I feel uncomfortable because my pants are too tight, well, like, the obvious answer would be like, well, then, you need a different size pant. Like we are not meant to fit into clothes. Like clothes are meant to fit us. So like, if that is what feels uncomfortable, then, like, the problem is not you. The problem is that you need to go to the store and get a new pair of pants that fit you and that you do feel comfortable in. And like, if you're feeling like your back hurts when you've gained some weight, if you're feeling like your back hurts when you've gained some weight, are you sleeping in a way that doesn't support where your weight is being held? Are you paying attention to? Are you also stressed?
Speaker 2:Like what else is coming? From those things so that so. So everything else has to adjust, but you don't have to. Is that what you're saying?
Speaker 1:I know, because I don't. I don't think it's just like a black and white answer okay, like I don't think that it's like no, you don't ever have to change. And I also don't think it's like yes, you should always change if you feel this way, because, like that's it's, it's like your answer for things is going to be different than my answer for things, yeah. So yeah, like I don't think it's one way or the other. What I do think is that you have to be really conscious about the why, like in just continuing to ask yourself why. And if it comes back to the point of like well, I want to look this way, so somebody thinks this about me, then like, it's.
Speaker 2:Maybe you need, it's not. I don't think it. For me, it's about what someone else thinks. It's about what I think. It's about how I feel more comfortable in my body when my body is smaller but why do you feel like that?
Speaker 1:why do you feel comfortable when you're smaller?
Speaker 2:because everything feels better, everything. My back feels better, my hips feel better, I feel better, I feel like I can sustain like longer distances of running and stuff like that. So I feel better okay.
Speaker 1:Well then, I think, like that's fine, but I also feel like it. You have to pay attention to like. Is that attainable for you? Like is the thing that you're trying to reach an attainable goal? Because it's one thing to be like. I feel more comfortable at x weight, yeah, and then. But then you're like, but x weight. Like means I have to work out three times a day and every day and.
Speaker 1:I have to eat this really strict diet and I can't do this, this, this and that then like, then you're trying to fit into.
Speaker 2:You're trying to squeeze into something you can't. I think that makes sense. I think that, um, and I guess the the numbers, it doesn't matter so much. It really is more about, like me, feeling comfortable myself. I I have to sometimes feel like I need to use numbers because I can go too far in a direction that's unhealthy, where I, like, didn't realize that I was looked unhealthy, looked sick, and I'm like I think I look great, what do you mean? And I'm like I think I look great, what do you mean?
Speaker 2:And so I know that I have to be careful, so that's the only reason why it is assigned a number, because I'm like I'm not striving for something that's unhealthy. I don't want to be to walk around and be unhealthy and be like easily get sick or easily like hurt myself or or or any of those things. I don't have that desire.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the thing, the only thing I would say to that is that I think sometimes unhealthy and fat are paired together. Yeah. And that's not true, because there are a lot of people who live in larger bodies, who are very healthy, yeah who are like marathon runners.
Speaker 2:And then the opposite is true. Yeah, and that's not true, because there are a lot of people who live in larger bodies who are very healthy who are? Like marathon runners, and then the opposite is true. Yeah, you've got people that are very thin that are not healthy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that couldn't run a mile if you paid them a million dollars. Yes, like conscious of. Yeah, because it's like, just because you're bigger doesn't mean you're unhealthy, it just means that you look different.
Speaker 2:You carry your weight in a different place, and so it just really it's like by person.
Speaker 1:It's very individualized, yeah, by person and that's why, like, the cycle that we're in as a like systemic root issue is so fucked up. Yeah, because you, especially BMI, really gets me going. It makes me so angry. Yeah, because it's very inaccurate. It was made, like decades and decades ago by a man based off of men. So whenever you go to the doctor and they're like, oh, you're obese. Like technically I would be obese on the BMI scale, but I work out daily pretty much Like I get some kind of movement, I eat well, like I'm able to do things physically, I feel good, like I would not consider myself obese in an unhealthy way. I'm in a larger body, but like when I was a lot thinner than this, I I couldn't do all the things that I'm doing today. Yeah, so the thing about that is like it's another label yeah, that we're placing on someone to gauge whether they're healthy or not. Yeah, and really like that your weight and your bmi is not going to tell you if you're healthy or not.
Speaker 2:Are you taking blood pressure? Yeah, your cardio effort, your, are you happy?
Speaker 1:your your bone density Like there's so many things that go into your health, so like the size of a person's body really has nothing to do with that, yeah, Okay, I like that.
Speaker 2:That makes sense. I guess there's a lot more. I have a lot more uncovering to do. What I did realize is that my criticism towards myself was one of the worst things I could have done to you, and I thought I wasn't doing the like let me put make everything super skinny in the middle. I wasn't criticizing you. I wasn't telling you not to eat certain kinds of foods. I felt like I'm like, all right, I'm okay.
Speaker 2:I wasn't okay, like I was so critical of myself, constantly beating myself up, never feeling good enough, pretty enough, any of the enoughs, and that is a terrible thing to pass on to your children and that is a terrible thing to pass on to your children. And you know, I like wanted you guys to feel so good about yourself and to feel like you were capable of anything and that you were just two incredible people that could do anything and that you were beautiful and wonderful and all these things. In the meantime, I didn't feel that way about myself at all, and so it was just an example of self-loathing. Your whole life you walk around with your if your own mother doesn't feel comfortable or valuable.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's okay, like you can forgive yourself for that. You were taught all of these things. It's a really hard cycle to break and it also takes a lot of, like, conscious effort Because, while, like, I've learned a lot about this, like I'm not going to be perfect for my kids either, like there's going to be times where I'm like, oh, I don't really feel great about this.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and they're going to be like oh, but I mean like you did the best that you could with what you had, and what you had was not an equipped tool belt for that specific situation. So, like what I would say to people who have younger kids now is like to become aware of how you feel about yourself and like choose to do the work, yeah. And also like let's stop praising children and teens and adults for what they look. Like yeah. Like you don't need to tell somebody that they're beautiful all the time. It's. I mean, that's a nice compliment to get, yeah, but like your number one compliment and thing that you're proud of someone for should be for who they are period yeah not even for the successes that they do, because then you're placing these standards of well.
Speaker 1:I only love you if yeah, like the thing that more people in general need to hear is I just love you for being you yeah, period.
Speaker 2:Can't you sell someone that they're beautiful and not even mean what they look like? Yeah, of course, and I don't think, don't say, don't ever say no, no, I know, I was just thinking that because, um, like, there's plenty of people that I think are beautiful people and um, and I'm not talking about what they look like yeah, and I think that like comes with um, like the way that you say it, like if I was saying that I'd be like you're such a beautiful person. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like that envelops their whole being.
Speaker 2:Also in that book. Another thing they talk about doing is like a lot of mindset stuff. It's a lot of replacing your self-talk. Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's a lot of replacing your self-talk and so that you're not instantly because, like I recently went to visit a friend in Jacksonville and we went paddle boarding and so, like she was in her bathing suit and I was in like a Lulu women, like tennis skirt and a like sports bra and I took my shirt off but I was like, oh, I feel uncomfortable and I was like, no, I'm like. No, all the self-affirmations that I had been telling myself I am light, I am worthy, I am alive inside and out, all those things I'm like no, those are the things I need to remind myself. And she's the one that started talking about body and I was like, and I just kept cutting it off, I'm like I don't. We're not going to say. We're not going to say there's definitely things that we all feel about ourselves and where we feel like we have flaws or uncomfortable, but that's not even relevant. The point is, is that look what we're doing? We're doing a physical activity. We're out here Because it was not hard.
Speaker 1:It was not easy.
Speaker 2:Like we had a. There was actually a sign that said don't swim because of the riptide, basically, and so it was like it was. At one point, I had to get down off like standing and like on my knees, because your body starts acting like a sail, and so you're like fighting against the wind and the current and you're like, holy cow, I'm not going anywhere.
Speaker 2:Like spinning around in a circle. So I just think yeah. So I felt proud of myself because I'm like I could have easily been like oh, my stomach. And even when we took a picture and I had my shirt off and I was like I don't care, it's all right, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1:I'm just going to accept myself for who I am. Yeah and um which?
Speaker 2:felt good because that is, it's a lot of weight off your shoulders, like it's freeing for sure. And I definitely felt that way when I turned 50. I was like I don't have to worry about this, what difference does it make? But that's not, that's silly too. Like, don't go to one extreme, to another. Yeah, um, and it's okay to want to feel pretty and want for and to want other people to think that you're pretty, um, I think. I think it's just being careful about what you said. But I also think that replacing the, replacing the language you use to yourself, and not even necessarily, I don't know, sometimes I think I can't allow myself to say that I'm fat or that I'm bloated or I'm whatever, because that's not what I am. That's how I feel in that moment.
Speaker 1:That doesn't mean what I am it doesn't have to be such a derogatory term. Yeah feel in that moment doesn't mean what I am doesn't have to be such a derogatory term. Yeah, like that's one thing like the, something I've learned from like people who are in like the plus size, like modeling industry, and like people who are plus size and like they're like I'm fat and that's freaking awesome. Like love that for me, like I, I think that's cool, that like they're taking some. It's just kind of like what we talked about failure. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like it's like taking a word that has been framed in such a negative light.
Speaker 2:And putting it in a positive and like just making it what it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like first of all, we all have fat. Yeah, like if you don't have fat, then yeah, that's a little bit concerning yeah, like then maybe we should talk yeah, but um, we all do somewhere on our body there's fat, so like we've turned it into this bad term. But it's not like some people again. Some people just exist in a larger body, some people exist in a medium-sized body, some people exist in a small body and that is all okay.
Speaker 2:There's no good or bad about any of that, no, and some people actually struggle to put on weight, like that's a serious struggle for them, yeah, and we never like give that any. We're always like, oh, I wish that was my problem, but we never give that any understanding or empathy, and that is something to think about too. I don't know. I I definitely will be working on the self-talk to myself. That's the thing that I feel like I have control over. I'm I'm not going to stop like working out or trying to eat healthy.
Speaker 1:For the most part, yeah, it's things that you feel like are good for you, like I don't think you need to, it benefits more than my body.
Speaker 2:It benefits my bones, it benefits my brain. It benefits my mental health. Yeah and um and so for that I'm like I will continue to want that, but um, just about having balance. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Because, like that you should. I feel like, I mean, everybody should want to have some movement and like, yeah, I have some movement. And like, yeah, want to try to put things in their body that are good for them. But also, like you want to, like, go to mcdonald's every once in a while and like, or like go to the movies and have a hamburger cheeseburger then, like popcorn, you shouldn't feel guilty about that. They don't have snow caps at my movie theater?
Speaker 2:yeah, they do at um liquid ranch, so all right. Is there anything that we should add to this?
Speaker 1:the only thing that I want to say is just that I'm going to put like a bunch of people that I follow on social media that are really like great influencers within this topic, so I'll have like links to all their Instagrams. That's something that I pay attention to is like who I'm following. All their instagrams, um, that's something that I pay attention to is like who I'm following. If I'm following somebody on social media and I see their stuff and it makes me compare myself or feel bad about myself, then I unfollow them immediately that's a good idea and not in a way that I'm like oh, you're a jerk, but like in a way that I'm like I'm protecting myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I need to protect my peace when it comes to being online. So I'm gonna link all the people that I highly suggest. All of them are women. There's also a wonderful transgender woman who I love who talks about this that I'm going to link below. And yeah, just people that I think are helpful people to have that kind of energy in your feed. If you want to give them a follow, so they'll be in the description, but yeah, I mean, I feel like I mean we could talk about this for a long, long time, but yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, it doesn't mean we won't come back to it.
Speaker 1:For sure, we definitely will. And if you have any questions, ask us questions. There is going to be a link in the description of every episode where you can basically like insert for like some free coaching. So if you put your question, you can remain anonymous or not Then we'll kind of coach on it within the podcast towards the end of our podcast, once we start to get in some entries with that. So, um, it's free, it's easy, it takes like two minutes, literally. Just go in there, ask your question and we'll talk about it. Um, so that'll be available in the description as well. Um, and then I mean, while you're down there, you might as well subscribe and like this podcast and also give us a review if you're on a listening platform. But yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Thanks for sharing, thank you. Thank you for your patience, of course, and your forgiveness, of course.
Speaker 1:I love you, I love you and we love you. I love you and we love you. Alright, we will see you next week.
