Mind Your Heart
Welcome to "Mind Your Heart," this cozy corner of the internet where Trina Deboree and Emily Reneé —your real-life Lorelei and Rory Gilmore duo—come together each week to chat about everything from mental health to the daily nuances of life. In each episode, we peel back the layers of topics like anxiety, depression, PTSD, and eating disorders with warmth, understanding, and a touch of humor (because otherwise, this just sounds depressing)!
Trina, an educator turned entrepreneur and mental health advocate, joins forces with her daughter Emily, a mental health coach and anorexia survivor, to share their journeys and insights in a way that feels like a heart-to-heart with old friends. The goal? To spark conversations that truly matter and to create a space where laughter meets healing.
Let's navigate the ups and downs of mental health together, making each day brighter and each challenge a little lighter. Grab your emotional support water bottle, put in your headphones, and join us while we mind our hearts for chats that comfort and inspire.
Mind Your Heart
Navigating Heartbreak and Healing
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What does it take to truly understand and address the complexities of mental health and suicide? This week on Mind Your Heart, we navigate through some of the most challenging yet crucial conversations surrounding mental well-being.
Trina opens up about a heartbreaking incident involving a neighbor's tragic murder-suicide, sharing a poignant conversation with the ex-husband of the deceased. Through this emotional journey, we explore the importance of trusting your instincts and responding with compassion during difficult times, highlighting the transformative power of self-belief and community support.
In our broader conversation around mental health support and stigma, we advocate for cultural shifts that embrace open acknowledgment and compassionate care. Reflecting on personal experiences and societal changes, we discuss the courage it takes to seek help, the urgent need for better mental health resources in schools, and the vital role of community support. Tune in as we encourage listeners to take incremental steps towards well-being, challenge stigmas surrounding mental health, and emphasize the transformative power of empathy, understanding, and proper care.
If you or someone you know is in need of support, please utilize the following resources: *all U.S. Based resources*
Mental Health & Suicide Crisis Hotline: 988
Medical Emergencies: 911
Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration’s National Helpline 1-800-662-HELP (1-800-
622-4357)
Crisis Text Line: Text START to 741-741
The Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual and Transgender National
Hotline: (888) 843-4564
U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline: (800) 799-7233
(English and Spanish) (800) 787-3224 (TTY)
or Text BEGIN to 887888
Rape Abuse and Incest National Network (RAINN): (800)
656-HOPE / (800) 810-7440 (TTY)
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Looking for some FREE coaching from us?! Click this link and submit your questions!
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Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your favorite corner of the internet where we chat about all things mental health. I'm Emily.
Speaker 2:And I'm Trina. Together, we're like your real-life Lorelai and Rory Gilmore. Each week, we'll bring you real conversations about the world of mental health and we will peel back layers on topics like anxiety, depression and much more.
Speaker 1:We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff, the everyday stuff and everything in between. So grab your emotional support water bottle I know we have ours. Find your comfiest chair or keep your eyes on the road and let's get into it. Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Join us as we mind our hearts and hopefully make minding yours a little easier.
Speaker 1:Welcome back to Mind your Heart. Welcome back, I'm your host.
Speaker 2:Emily, and I'm your host, trina. It's nice to see you. Nice to see you too, emily, my sweet baby girl.
Speaker 1:If you missed last week's episode, go check it out. We talked about like a lot to do with like self-esteem and body image and yeah, good stuff like that. Yeah, this week we are going to also have a little bit of a heavier topic, so we want to kind of give you a little bit of a trigger warning just to, yeah, give you a little little heads up.
Speaker 2:yeah we're gonna be yeah, we're talking about.
Speaker 1:We're talking about mental health, we're talking about suicide yeah, so obviously suicidal thoughts and severe mental health issues are. It's a serious topic. So this is a trigger warning for anyone who might find these discussions distressing. Our goal, obviously, is to bring awareness and provide us support and resources, but we understand that this is a conversation that can be really hard for some people, even for us, can be really hard for some people, even for us. If you think this episode might negatively impact you, then we encourage you to prioritize your mental health and consider skipping this episode or listening with someone who can offer you some support.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Your well-being is our top priority and if you find yourself struggling with any of this or at any point, then make sure that you you pause, pause the episode reach out to a mental health professional or a trusted person in your life. There's lots of different resources and there isn't even a suicide hotline.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's 988 in the United States, the mental health crisis hotline is 988. If you are in like immediate danger as well, you can always call 911, of course. And then there's also a crisis text line where you text start S-T-A-R-T to the number 741-741. So that's start to 741-741. So that's start to 741-741. We'll have those resources, along with some other resources in the description as well, if you wanted to check any of those out.
Speaker 2:All right, so we're going to start with our highs and lows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, all right so start with your low, my low, okay.
Speaker 2:So my low is actually has to do kind of to do with this topic. I have to explain that story. But I guess I'll explain that story after I share my low. So my low was that well, I'll just give this brief version.
Speaker 1:So it's my low too, okay.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, I had a friend, or not a friend, I had a neighbor that was actually oh well, that's not Milo, yeah.
Speaker 2:I had a neighbor that was killed by her son and then he killed himself, so I'll explain a little bit more about that in a minute. He killed himself, so I'll explain a little bit more about that in a minute. But I spoke to her ex-husband, who came to the house, who was also the father of the son. I spoke to him and it was sad, it was a hard. It was hard. I felt like I felt like I was supposed to have the conversation, like I felt like it felt like a divine intervention, for sure.
Speaker 1:Um, he needed it too. Yeah, I can tell from the conversation. I think I needed someone to listen.
Speaker 2:I definitely feel like he needed someone to listen, someone that was completely outside of unbiased yeah and um, and so that was. It was hard, it was sad, so that was definitely my low. My high, on the other hand, is somebody recently, you know, said some things about me that were really hurtful and really hard and upsetting, which actually would be part of my low. But I trusted my instinct. I felt like I couldn't believe. I don't have the best memory. I forget things, but I remember things with time. I remember things with time, but I don't remember every single detail of things.
Speaker 2:And when they said this, I just knew in my gut that I didn't respond that way. I couldn't have done that because it doesn't feel like it's me. And they kept telling me that I was this way and I'm like, but I'm not this way. It was like having a nightmare. It felt like a nightmare.
Speaker 2:It was so contradictory to the way that I feel about myself and what I hope to put out into the world, and so I just couldn't out into the world, and so I just couldn't believe it. So I was like, I felt like I had to like prove it to myself. I had to see for myself, so I like had to investigate, which sounds crazy. I just scroll through four years of text messages and I didn't actually respond in the way that I was accused of and I responded with love and compassion and I'm like I was so relieved but at the same time I'm like I also have to believe in myself and know I mean I have lots of faults. I can be insensitive, I can ruminate on things when I'm like focused on something or over hyper-focused. I think that comes with ADD being hyper-focused on things having a hard time letting things go.
Speaker 1:But you don't have to list all the things that like are your flaws.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1:Because you did trust your gut.
Speaker 2:This is your high, this is my high right I did. I trusted my gut. I didn't believe I couldn't believe high right. I did. I trusted my gut. I didn't believe I couldn't believe what someone was saying, no matter what kind of place they have in my life, like I couldn't believe it about myself and I um was relieved to know that I could trust my gut. Yeah that's it so that's my high yeah, um, my low was.
Speaker 1:I mean it has to do with you, but not like in a like you did something wrong. Yeah, it was because all of this was happening, like obviously you were feeling really low, Like you were down, you were upset, and I knew that and you had texted me and you said I think you said like I need to talk to you.
Speaker 2:I need to talk to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which, like, first of all, is a very ominous text to text an anxious person, I'm sorry and I texted you back, I think, like maybe 10 minutes later it was no more than 10 minutes later Because I was in a coaching call with someone, someone and I was like, are you okay? Like at first I was like, did I do something wrong? Like I literally went into Slack and I was like, did I miss something? Like maybe she said something on a business level or like um, and I was like I don't think I did. Like I finished this and like my head was like going all over the place and I was like, okay, well, and I had called you and you didn't answer and I was like, okay, well, like that's weird, like it was not that long ago that she said this Because of my ADD.
Speaker 2:Yeah, first of all, I texted that like I need to talk to you, not like I need to talk to you.
Speaker 1:But like I don't know that, yeah, I don't know that.
Speaker 2:yeah, no, I'm reading it like I know I need to talk to you. It was just that I had just discovered and I was like I gotta talk to her. I need to tell her this that I this is what I found. But then squirrel, yeah, and I was like, oh yeah, I have a meeting, let me jump into that, yeah, and then, and so I wasn't even paying attention to my phone. I'm sorry, I'm justifying.
Speaker 1:I texted jackson and I was like have you heard from mom? And he was like, no, why? Like he's, like she seemed. But he was like I did talk to her, um, the other day and she just seemed like upset. And I was like I was like, okay, well, like I knew she was upset, but like is she like really upset? And then I called nanny and and this whole time I'm texting jake like I'm freaking out, like I don't know what's wrong. Text it. I called Nanny and and this whole time I'm texting Jake like I'm freaking out, like I don't know what's wrong. Text it. I called Nanny and I'm like have you heard from mom? She was like no, like why? And I was like, well, could you try and call her? Like she texted me. I tell her what happened.
Speaker 1:Um, she texted me, she's like she didn't answer, but like maybe just give her a couple more minutes and then call her. And she's like and if she doesn't answer, then maybe just go over. And I was like, okay, um, and like the whole time, like I'm thinking back to this really scary time, like right after your the divorce, when we like first moved in to the house that you lived in, um, and you were like on the floor in the bathroom, like sobbing, like, like it was like nothing was there. Like I was like looking at you and like you were like not there, like, and I was afraid that you were gonna hurt yourself. Yeah and um, that's what I was picturing in my mind. I was like, oh, my god, like she needed to talk to me. Like I didn't answer right away, like she's not gonna be okay, like I need to like go over there right now. I literally, like I started putting on my shoes. I was like let me take Daisy out, so that way, if she needs to stay here for a long time, that she's not gonna like piss all over the house.
Speaker 1:Uh, like text, jake, I'm like he's like, do you want me to come with you? And I was like I was like sure, yeah, like, but just meet me there, because, like I'm gonna go. Yeah, and um, because then I was like, okay, I'll call her again. Like didn't answer, um, and like I like just finished tying my shoes and I was about to go out the door and then you called me and I was like, oh, like it was like, oh, thank god. Like I was so scared, so that was my low. That's terrible. Yeah, I was like, really, I was just concerned, like I didn't know. Yeah, yeah, I was, yeah, I was scared, so that was my low and we can talk more about that as we get into the episode.
Speaker 1:I I think we need to, because, yeah, yeah, the fact that you would even like that, your mind would go to that so quickly is well first I was like I texted everybody yeah, because I was like yeah I was like well, like it's probably fine, maybe it is just about this specific situation, and even jake was like I think it's probably just about that and I was like okay, but like I don't know, like my gut was like she's really upset and I don't know what the degree of it is yeah, yeah so um, yeah, and then it just started spiraling so um.
Speaker 1:But my high um, jake and I have been like really prioritizing, like dating lately cool um, so like every week we'll like go on a date, um, and that's just been like really nice yeah, and. I told him I was like you know, like I mean, when we first started dating we I mean we started dating at a camp, so we didn't like.
Speaker 1:It's not like he came like, picked me up yeah, and stuff like that yeah, um, and then when we got out of camp we basically lived together like right away, which like sounds crazy, but like I it is kind of wild, but like we were just so like close for those months that we were at camp, um, but like he lived at your house with me and um.
Speaker 1:So again, like he didn't like pick me up for dates, like we just went on dates, and so I recently told him I was like I want you to like woo me yeah Like yeah, I want to feel like want me, or like you're coming to pick me up, and it's just like, oh, whatever, and I forgot that, I told him that and I don't remember where we were going. But I'm like getting ready and I like hear Daisy start barking and I was like what? And I like start calling. I'm like Jake, jake, like I'm like ugh, like he's not helping me, like I'm trying to finish getting ready and I like go. And she's like barking at the door. I was like, oh, maybe somebody like knocked and I like open the door. He like has flowers and he's like I'm here to pick you up for our date and I was like, oh, okay.
Speaker 2:I'm like come on in and he's like acting like we've like never met before.
Speaker 1:Um, so that was cute, that's adorable, yeah, yeah. And then he did that again um, for I think yesterday was it yesterday yeah, when I went to see deadpool he didn't like bring him flowers again, because we already have flowers right now, but it was nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, you don't want to skip that, that's yeah yeah, because like when I was in high school, like I sound like I had like a boyfriend to come and pick me up and like, feel like nervous and giddy about like that kind of stuff so I'm like I don't like I don't want to date anybody else, but I also I'm like I don't want to like not have those kinds of experiences, just because we like met in kind of a unique way and like our relationship was just so in it from the beginning.
Speaker 1:So I was like, yeah, like that's cool, it was I like that, yeah, yeah, okay.
Speaker 2:So we're talking about, um, well, let's talk about, well, there's two things from that, from the highs and lows, and the first one, um, has to do with, like you, immediately feeling that I could be in such a bad place. I think that, and this is what I said to you, I said at first of all, I was like you know, I didn't give you a hard time, or, like emily, you're overreacting yeah like I didn't. I didn't do that. I was like oh sweetie, I'm so.
Speaker 1:And I was like you need to FaceTime me right now so I can see your face.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I was immediately like I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1:And then I, I wasn't like mad at you, no, no, no, I didn't feel like you needed to be sorry.
Speaker 2:No, I know, but I did because I was sorry about that. It was that I was sorry that you could even think that, that I have put you in the situation to even imagine that I could be in that possible space.
Speaker 1:But I don't think you put me in that situation.
Speaker 2:But I mean, you witnessed something very traumatic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, that's true, but I also experienced that myself, yeah, and that was not nearly as long ago as that was with you like that was only a couple of years ago. So, like in my mind, I'm like, and recently you have, like, you were like I don't know, like you had to figure out, refigure out some meds and stuff. So like I think, like the part of me, that's like I know what it's like to be in that really like scary place and then something really like monumental happened to you twice, like the thing with the neighbor and then the friend.
Speaker 1:You're right, I'm like those are two really massive events that you like you just figured out like the med situation. You just like got back to being like feeling, to being like feeling more like yourself and like on like the stable area, and I'm like so maybe this like really rocked the boat and like I remember what it feels like like. So that's where my head was at. But then and then my mind was like well, if that's what it is like, this is what it's gonna look like and then it started giving me that picture of what, like I had experienced.
Speaker 1:Okay, so that's interesting. It is like this is what it's gonna look like, and then it started giving me that picture of what, like I had experienced okay.
Speaker 2:So that's interesting it, just because I feel like. I feel like in situations I mean, I'm not a suicide expert, but I feel like in situations that there are some warning signs leading up to people feeling that low. I don't think it's just like okay, do, do, do, do, do. And then one day I think that there are. And I think it depends on the person.
Speaker 2:I definitely think it depends on the person, but I think that if you are, paying attention there are some signs and obviously when you, I don't even remember that situation that you're talking about. So that's crazy. Yeah, like I don't remember that and not even you telling it. Can I remember that? I can like picture it so vividly and that is I feel. I do feel terrible for you witnessing that Now. I have always believed that you should be honest, honest with kids.
Speaker 2:I think kids need to know that sometimes there's highs and lows and that you have feelings and that that's how you have to work out feelings. I do think that, however, I think that you also, in a sense, there's some protecting of kids, teenagers, that you also do as a parent and in this case, like I, wasn't protecting you from seeing something so traumatic. That is like I, that you know, I have a lot of guilt when it comes to that situation in the first place, and so this is like another thing where I'm like oh great, I was like on the floor.
Speaker 1:But that's so hard because, like, when you're in it, it was so hard.
Speaker 2:It was just a terrible time of life. When you're in it, it's also when you're in that state of mind you don't think rationally. I was going to say you don't think rationally, and also I don't want to put any pressure on people, because when you are in that state of mind you are barely surviving, like you are trying your best to think about your children and everybody else, but when you are in the state of mind where you're even considering harming yourself, you're not thinking rationally, you're in a whole nother world, and so I think it's important for people to know that. Now, what I said to you the other day was that I have always been really good about reaching out and telling people, and you did in that situation too.
Speaker 1:You had reached out to somebody, and they came over and helped.
Speaker 2:Really.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I had gotten you into bed and like they came over made sure you'd like taking your meds, like made sure you had like water. They like sat with you. Who is this? I think it was. Um, I feel like it was either Miss Knight or Miss Sergi. Okay, I can't remember which one. I feel like it probably was Miss Sergi, because if it was, it wouldn't really make sense for it to be Miss Knight, because we were living in her house. Yeah, she was probably gone. So they were. Yeah, I think it was Miss Sergi, I don't remember that.
Speaker 2:I do know that I yes, I have reached out every time that I've ever felt like that, which have been more than once.
Speaker 2:I have reached out and said I am in trouble, I need to talk. I have never tried to work it out myself, tried to figure it out myself. I have always said I'm in trouble, I know I'm in trouble, my thoughts are going to dark places and I know I'm in trouble. I'm in trouble, like I know I'm in trouble, like my thoughts are going to dark places and I know I'm in trouble. So I will say that and also the other thing that I feel that I said to you, but I'm like, I don't know like I. A parent's love is so, it's so beyond anything that you can explain to someone, and so there's always that thought of them.
Speaker 2:But in that case, like I wasn't thinking of you, so I don't even think that I mean, I wasn't meaning not to think of you. It was just in so much pain. So as I do think that you think about your children and what you don't want to leave them, I also think that you can be in such a dark place that you can't see. You can't see.
Speaker 1:You think it's better for them?
Speaker 2:Yes, you've rationalized it in your head somehow that they would be better off without you or whatever. And so I think that there are. I just haven't felt that way in so long that I'm like, well, I haven't given them any signs that I've to that had felt to that point, but I have felt that way.
Speaker 1:I feel like with the before, like the medication, like adjustment and stuff, like you were. You were like I feel very low and like you had said that to me and I was like all right, well then, I'm going to be on alert, like so I felt like that was like my just like. And then I mean like you had said that to me and I was like all right, well then, I'm gonna be on alert, like okay, so I felt like that was like my all right, just like. And then I mean like you've not been like that since then.
Speaker 2:That's been months now but it's, yeah, it's been. It's interesting because it's like for me, as soon as, like the like, adjustments are made, it's all. I can't even remember I'm like, oh yeah, I did feel that terrible um that I was worried about you during that yeah, which is understandable because it was I was having a hard time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, um, and that's why I think it's so important to be like under the care of a psychiatrist or taking medication. Being willing and open to like experimenting with education, with medication is because I feel so much better. Like the thought of that sounds irrational to me, like the thought I was like where is this coming from? That's how I feel, because I feel so much better, but you're right, it hasn't been that long since I have felt really low and down and like angry. Yeah. So, which is another thing Like my depression comes out as anger sometimes and I get mad, like I'm just mad, and so that is so. It's not even just science symptoms or signs of like watching someone be sad or isolated or you know, it can also be anger. So I think that that's an interesting thing.
Speaker 1:Or like mania like that's another. I mean, depression is such a layered thing For sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also it's like educating yourself yeah, like really learn some things about it. It will make all the difference to you and to the person that suffers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, especially because when you were talking about meds like for people who are, like, suffering from clinical depression, like that's a literal chemical imbalance in your brain.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's me.
Speaker 1:So, yeah, I mean, like it's the same thing for me, like that's why I have to take medication, yeah, like it's I don't make enough serotonin.
Speaker 2:Yeah, which like You're not doing that on purpose? Yeah, of course not. It's not like I'm like brain don't make serotonin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Because there is like a difference between like some seasonal depression for people who are like okay, like they don't have a chemical imbalance like all the time.
Speaker 2:They can take some medication for a period of time and they can stop. Yeah, and my psychiatrist and I figured out years and years and years ago that I would not be able to stop.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that it was like taking insulin and that, as much as I wanted my body to produce more of something, it wasn't going to. Yeah, and so I know for me I have to take it, but it was. I have felt that way. I have reached out to people when I've been in trouble and I've also helped people who've been in trouble. So I, yeah, so it's like one really important thing that comes to mind that I don't want to forget to mention is making a contract with people, and that is it can be a verbal contract, it can be like a written contract where they are willing to at least reach out if they are having any of those kinds of feelings and they make an agreement with you or a specific person that they trust that they will reach out if they're feeling that way.
Speaker 2:And I did that for my friend's daughter and I yeah, I've done that with a few people. Yeah, I was her person, that is she, and I took it very seriously. I knew if she needed anything that I was there. I also spent a lot of time with her. I had weekly dates with her for a while because I understood it's like a dark.
Speaker 2:It's hard for me to think about it right now because I'm not even close to that mindset, but the darkness, it feels like a fog, like you're in a fog, like a fog rolls in and you are in this fog where you can't see, are in this fog where you can't see. But I'll tell you, I've never been as scared about it as I was when you experienced it. That was far more terrifying to me. And how you can lose people, how you can can lose them. And I remember feeling like you know the, the, the night, one of the nights that was like, really difficult for you, um, I didn't have my like now my phone, like you call and my phone will push it through. Yeah, yeah, it pushes it through. And, um, even on, do not disturb, because I was asleep. I was asleep, I was asleep and I was like and I felt so guilty about not being there when you needed me.
Speaker 1:But I don't want you to feel I'm not going to try and change your feelings, but I don't want you to feel like that because I also, like, I did reach people who, like, could help me in that moment, and then I still did talk to you the next day.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So because, like I, I mean I reached out to like our pastor's wife, like who's also a pastor and she is A nanny.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I first called Nicole and I she was like walking me through it, because I was like walking me through it, because I was like in it and she lost her brother to suicide and she was very helpful and she was like you need to like call someone like who's going to be able to come over. She was like if, like I can come, if you want me to, and I was like no, like I also like, when you're in that place, like you don't want to like be more of a burden to people. So I was like I don't want anybody to come over. And then I called you first and then I was. I thought you were going to be asleep because it was late, it was like midnight, and then I called Nanny and by some miracle she was awake and I think barely though, because they both came over and they were like in their pajamas and then her and Steve came and yeah, she just like sat with me and yeah, I know like she was very scared too, she was terrified.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she like which, like I feel bad about that, Like I feel bad that, like no, don't don't, because I know she like thinks about that sometimes too, and I'm like yeah, but you know she doesn't get a lot of practice in those kind of moments.
Speaker 2:I mean not that you want, but I mean she doesn't allow herself to um to think about like dark, heavy things, like she stays in a very positive poly type of mentality. Yeah, she tries to put a positive spin on things like so. So I think it's um, but she I don't know if she gives herself enough credit either.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she was very helpful she was very helpful to you like she was very like I think, like I think it was like even though, like yes, like I called you and like I wanted it to be, you Like I think, like God was like this is what like needs to happen right now. Yeah, because, like you were helpful for like the after and she was like really like calm and like soothing like in the moment. Yeah, which soothing like in the moment, um, which like not that I don't think that you would have been, but I, yeah, I don't know, I just think it's like a different, like it's just a different dynamic and she, yeah, and she, she just did a good job, yeah, and you know, it's funny because I, like, I never thought in any of the other times that I but I would call her because I didn't know.
Speaker 2:I didn't know if she could like give me what I needed in that moment, but she definitely has. I mean, one of the times for me I remember being this wasn't even I mean, I lived in the house I live in now, so I had gotten into a very upsetting argument with Jackson. I was extremely triggered. I felt like I was arguing with your dad. I literally felt like my reality was warped.
Speaker 2:I actually at one point said something to him that I would never say to Jackson, but would maybe say to your dad, in an unbalanced state of mind, which is what was happening. Yeah, and I remember being like so ashamed of myself and going into my closet and just laying in there crying and crying and and being like I don't want to be here, yeah, and um, and calling her and she just stayed on the phone with me until it's not like you snap out of it, but it's like no, until you can get to a place where you're at least not on the edge.
Speaker 2:Yes, and so it was. It was very comforting and I I just remember her being really comforting um, it is scary when you. It's scary like this, this song, that um noah khan, call your mom. Like I remember when I when I first realized I had to find, there we go.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when I first realized that this was about that, I was like I didn't know until you told me yeah, and then I listened to it again and I was like how did I not see this?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, but it's like it's so good, yeah, but it makes me think. It makes me think of you because, um, the part where he talks about um staying on the line with you the entire night until you let it out and let it in yeah, don't let the darkness fool you. All lights turned off can be turned on. I'll drive, I'll drive all night, like that is the part that I'm like, yeah, I would. I'm like I would have done anything. You know, I would have done anything to get to you and um, and it's like I love, I just love that. Don't let this darkness fool you. All lights turned off can be turned on. Like that is so powerful. Yeah, that is such a like. It's like there's so much hope in that. And those two lines, yeah and um, I think he does such a good job of drawing attention to something that's so dark and scary and and, like you know, even the oh dear, don't be discouraged. I've been exactly where you are. Yeah, like that, it's such a like a beautiful tragedy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like that's how it feels. Because it's like, obviously, like you don't want to write about something like this, with the way that he humanizes it and like empathizes with you. This song reminds me of how brene brown explains empathy versus sympathy. Like she's like sympathy is like when somebody's like in the well and you're like you give them the rope and you're like, yeah, I'll like try and get you out, let's do this. But like empathy is like you like come down with them and you sit there with them until they're ready to get out. Yeah, and that's how this feels. Because, like he's talked about mental health he's very good about talking about that kind of stuff and I love that. He like is like I've been where you are. Yeah, like you're not crazy. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with you. Like we'll get you. Yeah, we'll get you out. Like that light that is off right now.
Speaker 1:Like it's off and that sucks and the darkness is scary, but like we can turn it back on.
Speaker 2:Turn it back on. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:And then where he's like, when he even like gives some suggestions or like um, where he's like you know, medicate, meditate, swear your soul to jesus.
Speaker 2:Throw a punch, fall in love, give yourself a reason. Um don't want to drive another mile, wondering if you're breathing like that is um. That line is like for me yeah and then won't you stay, won't you stay, won't you stay with me, um.
Speaker 1:So that is, yeah, such a, it's such a good song, it's um, it's important yeah, it's important and I think, like, if there's anybody listening to this that does feel like near that or in any way that and you're thinking like I don't have that person I can call, I don't have that person I can like make a contract with, like, I will be that for you. I know you would be that for anyone. Like, don't let that be the thing that like prevents you from like getting the help that you need. Like there is somebody, whether you know them or you just listen to them on podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That like cares about your life and like wants you to continue living it. It, um, we I mean like we have, we have an email that you can reach out and we can figure out how to contact you, like giving you our number or whatever. It is like know that, like this isn't something that you have to do alone because it feels so lonely. It's so lonely and scary and I just remember it like hurting so bad and like just not really knowing like anything else would help. But like there is like there. And one thing I used to say is or I used to hate when people would say to me like, oh, like it'll get better, like it'll be okay, like that was so irritating to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, felt condescending Because I'm like you'll be okay, like that was so irritating to me because I'm like you don't understand, like and I'm not saying that like all your problems are going to be solved and everything's going to feel great and wonderful, but like if you can just take one small step at a time and, like, ask somebody to take it with you, like it will get to a point where it doesn't feel like this anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so please reach out to someone, whether it's a family member or a friend or us or professional yeah, or a professional which is hotline is um, but I actually had to use that recently, not for myself, but um, I'll. I'll tell that part. My neighbor, as I mentioned in the beginning of the podcast, my neighbor was shot outside of her house and I live in a gated community that is in a rural kind of area.
Speaker 1:So it's not like a high. It's not a place you would expect there to be a murder-suicide.
Speaker 2:It's not a high crime situation and I had just been outside. This is a neighbor that I share the lawn with, like our lawn is connected together and I knew her. We knew each other, like I've been living there for eight years or something like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and she, I knew she was divorced, I knew she had been through a difficult divorce.
Speaker 2:I knew that she had kids. She lived there with her son. I got the sons confused often, but like I live there with my son, I mean this was after you were gone. She and I spoke a few times. We we weren't friends, but we weren't. I mean, she was a great neighbor and I had just seen her in the last couple of months and she had been, I thought, sick and home and she was like really sweet to my dog. And then her mom met the dog and like so it hadn't been that long since I've spoken to her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then Kobe and I had just been outside when I was talking to my brother on the phone. We came inside and we were. I thought I heard a loud crash and Kobe was just freaking out. Kobe was freaking out and I was like what are you doing? I'm talking to Dex, please be quiet. And I had my AirPods, I had noise canceling. And then I thought I heard a firecracker and I'm like was that a firecracker? Was that a gun? And it was more than once. So I was like what's happening? Well, I still continue to try to get Kobe to be quiet and I'm still talking on the phone. And then he went ballistic and there was a police officer walking by my window with crime scene tape and I was like what is happening? And so I, I opened the door and I saw my neighbor on the ground, her legs on the ground, like I was like is she laying in the driveway?
Speaker 2:and like my brain was not connecting the dots, I I was like you, don't expect that no and I thought she was just laying out in the driveway in the sun, because she has done that before, yeah. So I was like there she's in the driveway and but then I was like, but there's all these police cars and the crime scene tape and I'm like what? Like something is not connecting. And then, um, and then I got a text from my neighbor that was a couple houses down and she's like don't go outside, there's two dead bodies. And I was like, oh my gosh. And so I'm like, don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.
Speaker 2:I'm like, and she's like I think it's the boyfriend and for some reason I just knew it wasn't. I just knew it wasn't, I just knew it was the sun and um. And so I looked and I was like it's, it's the sun and um, and that's just. It was just a really, it was just such a tragedy. And um, and then the bullet. There was a bullet hole in the window right across from where kobe, where I keep kobe's pool, which was so terrifying. Yeah, um, and just the thought, like if we had been outside, she, she had come outside. I guess I don't know if he fired the gun in the house, but she had come outside to get away from him, I'm assuming and then he shot her um in the driveway and then he turned the gun on himself and shot himself.
Speaker 2:So he was in the driveway. She was kind of on the towards the sidewalk. He was in the driveway and um, and it was just like, and then like the guilt. I felt like guilt the next day. First of all I was in shock, like I was definitely in shock because you and Jake wanted to come and I I was like no, I, I didn't want anyone to come. I felt like I remember sitting on my stairs for I don't even know how long, yeah, just like I don't know what to do, and there was like so many police officers outside and then like yeah, it was, we were surrounded in crime scenes.
Speaker 2:I was in the crime scene.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was like because we did end up coming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you guys ended up, and I'm so glad you guys ended up coming, because what do what? I think I was just going to go to bed.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I mean also like we were going to come, whether you said yes or no, anyways, but Jackson, like I'm pretty sure I don't remember if he texted me or if he called me and he was like have to go, like you have to go, like I I can't like get there, like how you can, whatever, and I was like we're like I'm already in the car, like it's okay. Um, but yeah, when we got there there was so many police cars like it was crazy like detective cars, undercover cop cars, like police car, like it was.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, it was wild, it was crazy and and I felt like I had to process, like even talking about it now, I feel really removed.
Speaker 2:But I didn't feel that way. I felt like very guilty. I felt so guilty the next day because I felt like you know, I should have noticed I should have helped her. I could have like what if she had come outside, I could have helped her, but I couldn't have helped her. And I could have helped her. I could have like what if she had come outside? I could have helped her, but I couldn't have helped her and I could have gotten killed myself. I probably would have been killed Because if he was in the state of mind, if I tried to help her, maybe he would have.
Speaker 2:I don't, who knows, but it was, but it was just. But I did feel guilty. I felt guilty and I felt like I wasn't a good neighbor, like I didn't. I know they had gotten into fights. I'd heard loud yelling just a few times, not very many times, in the eight years that we lived next door. Normally they were very quiet and I never saw them. I actually thought she worked at night because I was like I never see her and they had Christmas decorations up all year round.
Speaker 2:So I just thought I mean in the house, because I could see the windows Because I share the lawn with her and I'm always right there with Kobe, but it was just such a tragedy. And then the next day I came out and everything was gone and they were cleaning the blood off the driveway and so it looks like nothing ever happened, which is also a weird feeling. But they keep sending food, like a company keeps sending food. And I called the company and I'm like please stop sending this delivery. Yeah, and I'm like there's you know, it's sitting out here rotting, there's flies, and I'm like this is not good. Yeah, and they're like we can't do anything. Liz, we have an email which was so stupid. I'm like I have the name and I have the address and this is an extenuating circumstance.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you can look it up at any besides. Just the email, yeah, and so I don't know what's going to happen. Hopefully that will stop, but it's been a while now, like over a month. Yeah, yeah, I guess. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think it's been over a month.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it just feels like now. It just feels like so surreal. What I found out was that the son excuse me, the son had texted his dad that he was going to kill him and the dad thought that he had been drinking or been doing drugs, and so he didn't respond. And the dad thought that he had been drinking or been doing drugs, and so he didn't respond. He ended up going out of town. So he feels like, you know, he feels like God was looking out for him, like he sent him out of town.
Speaker 2:He never has to go out of town. Just out of the blue. He had to go out of town.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he had the daughter, the sister, yeah, and with him. And then they got toia or wherever they were going and like as soon as they got there, it was like flooded of what had happened. But, um, but the son had contact. So the son contacted the stepmom and said did dad go out of town? And she said, yes, what, do you want to punch him? You want to beat him up? Yeah, and he didn't respond and she kept trying to write him and he, and that was when, yeah, the murder, suicide was going on, and so it was just it's like I don't know why I immediately thought it was the son.
Speaker 2:That's another thing. Like I'm, like I I always had an uncomfortable feeling about that for some reason, because I don't know why, else it would automatically come to my mind yeah, um, so, but what do you even do? I mean, I know that there's been signs like what do you do? Like nobody, unless you have like a suicide watch, it's not. You just don't, you don't know what to do, and the police had been at that house, I guess, earlier in the day over a domestic dispute, and so like there is nothing that you can do. It's just really.
Speaker 1:There's not much law enforcement does when it comes to mental health either, because there's not really like the resources, on that end at least, and like and he needed help and that's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2:He was like a very isolated person. According to the dad, they knew that he had issues. He ended up going into the military. He flew a drone he like, and you know, was part like they blew people up. So he came back from the military like and that's the thing that I feel like, and I was talking to my hairdresser about this and she's like, well, they do have help and I'm like they don't have enough help yeah we need to have more help for veterans.
Speaker 2:We need to have. It needs to be a normalized thing too. I think they should have to go through a mandatory debriefing, or whatever she called it.
Speaker 2:I'm like, when you have, they don't necessarily have quality no, and when you have gone through a situation like that, then like, there you got to, there's got. I think it's a long therapy afterwards, it's not like a short. You go here a couple of times. Yeah, I think that's going to impact you in some way. And when we put our, our people, our men, our young people in a situation like that, we have to take care of them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, men and women, men and women and I am only saying men because, um, because I'm thinking of this book that I just recently read, which is actually called the women, because there were women in vietnam as well. But like they, like it just feels like it is, it is a lot more men than it is women, and so, but we have to take care of both. We have to take care of both men and women when they return from something like this, and there just has to be more. And when we have families that recognize that there are problems. You know we want them to be able to, but there's not enough help. There's not enough help in schools, not attainable?
Speaker 1:it's not attainable. Help where there is help. Because it's expensive. Yes, it is, it's expensive. It's hard to. It's hard to get in touch with good people because they have long waiting lists or, yeah, like their first visit is like upwards of $300, or does your insurance take it? No, so now I have to be self-pay and oh, like You're right, we haven't made it more accessible.
Speaker 2:We definitely haven't made it more accessible. We it's it just. We just need to do better. I think we've come a long way. We didn't even used to talk about mental health when I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it was like a teenager. I remember when I was, when I was growing up and I started going to counseling, dad told me not to tell anyone. He was like you can't talk about this at school and I was like why? Like I don't care if people know? And he was like you just can't like people look at you differently. And I was like I'm not crazy, like I just need like to talk to somebody. And he was like you shouldn't talk about it, like you, there's no need to talk about it. And I didn't listen to him. Like I told people about it because I didn't, I didn't care what he said. But yeah, um, I remember him like being ashamed that like I was going to counseling.
Speaker 2:Well, he definitely there was a stigma for him. Yeah, like he felt um, like there was a to counseling.
Speaker 2:Well, he definitely there was a stigma for him. Yeah, like he felt like there was a stigma. I know that was a hard thing for him to consider, but it's not about. It's just we have to get over that. I think it takes so much more strength, for sure, to say that you need help and to work through that, because counseling is not easy. No, that takes a lot of strength and courage because you're going through, you're like dealing with things that have hurt you, like you're looking at, looking and examining things that can be upsetting you. It's just so much courage so I I just think we have to do a better job yeah, I just wish that there were more things that made it attainable like.
Speaker 1:I think in different countries they like like it's not something like you have to pay for like, and but they're also like paid really well by like whatever, I don't know province, I don't, it's not out state, but like you know what I mean yeah, um, it's like those but not doctors are.
Speaker 2:but sometimes, like I guess, even I have a friend in Canada and she says they, you know, they don't have very good coverage on this and they have, like you know, socialized health care.
Speaker 1:I'm talking, I think, like the Netherlands or something.
Speaker 2:Well, they do everything the best way I know.
Speaker 1:I was going to say they also have really good prison systems and really good schools and really good stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but it's just which is another place that we need to be doing this actually is in schools because oh, yeah, yeah, we need so much more support in schools than when we are given and um teachers and students. Yes, both teachers and students, because like even helping like teachers as far as counseling for teachers yeah, no that's what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:I feel like if because like it's just a similar situation to like when you're a parent and you're like wanting to better yourself for your kids, like as a teacher, like you spend hours and hours and hours of the day with these kids, like they're going to be able to like kids they can read emotions very well. So, like when you're a teacher and like you're struggling To be able to like kids, they can read emotions very well. Yeah, so like when you're a teacher and like you're struggling, like you need to be able to have the resources to be helped and supported so that way you can do your job the best way that you can for you and for the student, for both, I agree, and kids they definitely know.
Speaker 2:I remember when I was going through divorce and this little boy used to come and pat me like he would be, like that's okay, and he would like pat me on the back and I was like I thought I was doing such a good job like keeping my emotions to myself and I wasn't like he could feel. He could feel it, yeah, and um, and I'm like, oh man, you're such a sweet little boy and but I do think, yeah, counseling help and even and even like education for teachers on some of these topics on trauma on trauma informed you
Speaker 2:care is so important yeah and some of these things that we just don't learn. You know when we're going to school to teach.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like even as simple as like how, like yelling at your class can be so triggering. Because I remember when I was in school and I had a teacher that like we had a very rough class but she would yell all the time and I was miserable because like dad was loud and yelled and so like it was like I could not escape that and like going to school every day was like like I was so uncomfortable and scared Because it was like I couldn't get, there was nowhere I could be without yelling, like I knew, okay, well, I'm going to go to school and something's going to happen Because it dictates it like, takes over everything.
Speaker 2:And so then, kids that are quiet or well-behaved are kind of just, it's a blanket yelling. Yeah, like everybody gets the punishment and I'm like, yeah, not that I don't think even people who are in trouble should be yelled at.
Speaker 2:I don't think that no, I'm like yeah, just stuff like that, like even small things, but it's like again, these are things that we don't like we, we like teachers like we have. We have to change what we've done as far as education, for teachers as well, because we used to feel like, well, that's not part of even part of my job, but now it's a part of our daily life, so it has to be a part of, of how we like it's just got to be something that has to be taught. That's a whole, nother subject, but it has to be something that's taught as well. All right, so whoops, so yeah and um.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean like I think we covered a lot, but I also think like the power of getting the help where you are, whether that be talking to a coach, a counselor, psychiatrist, friend like is important and really like honestly can change your life.
Speaker 2:So for sure I feel like my life was changed when I found I found the right psychiatrist. Also when I found the right counselor, um, which is also very hard to do. It is very hard to do. It took me a while, yeah. And then also, you've got general practitioners prescribing medication where they should not be. They really have no business prescribing this kind of medication. This needs to be somebody that is an expert in neurological and is willing to monitor you and is willing to monitor you, is willing to monitor you like it needs to be. It has to be monitored, yeah. And so I really feel like it's got to be, it's got to be a specialist it's got to be a specialist.
Speaker 2:I found a great um psychiatrist I and she was willing to change, to try things and she was willing to like let me call when I needed to and tell her yeah, this is you know, this isn't working or whatever, and she was so great and I just feel so thankful for her. But I've also had psychiatrists where I'm like they were just kind of lazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I've had some shitty psychiatrists.
Speaker 2:I really like my new one that I have now, so I'm really happy with him.
Speaker 1:But again, it's super expensive.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I pay out of pocket and it's expensive, it's super expensive. Yeah, yeah, I pay out of pocket and it's expensive. And then a counselor like if you don't feel comfortable with the counselor, you don't feel like you're moving towards a better resolution for yourself, then it's time to find someone else. Like, don't be afraid to like to shop counselors.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you don't, it's not a good fit. It's like dating yeah, like you don't connect yeah, it's not. It's like dating, yeah, like you you don't connect. You just don't connect with them. Because, like when I've talked to jake about like when he was looking for a counselor a little while ago, he was like, well, I've been to counseling and like he just was kind of like, yeah, it's all good, like whatever, and I was like that then that's not the right fit for you like then?
Speaker 1:that's somebody that's not like listening to, like what you need them to listen to. They may be great for somebody else but it's just not a fit for you and I'm like I've been through plenty to know that like and also sometimes like you're with a counselor for a little while and then it's that becomes not a fit and then you need to move on to a different level of somebody else who's at a different whatever.
Speaker 1:So it's which is tiring and also feels like a lot when you're in the midst of things, um, but that's where I would say, like, ask somebody for help. Yeah, um, like I have helped people find a psychiatrist, like I've literally called psychiatrists for people before, like, um, because I think it's so important to like figure that out. But I also know how it feels when you're in it. You're like I can't do one more thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it feels like an overwhelming task, yeah.
Speaker 1:So like ask somebody to help you, ask somebody to help you who knows what you're looking for, yeah, or at least like that you can explain and then they can take it from there, yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it it you have to get the help, but it's understandable that it's it's overwhelming, it's overwhelming, it is overwhelming, but um it's important.
Speaker 2:It's important, so definitely get, get the help and then, um, and keep, keep pushing for it, keep pushing, yeah, and if it's not the right medication, it's not the right person.
Speaker 2:You push for somebody else. You have to be an advocate for yourself or find someone who will be an advocate for you. Unfortunately, you just do that's hard, it is hard and then like something that I have been doing recently, in this last year, like is mindset coaching and that has been that's been really beneficial as well. Yeah, which is different than counseling, for sure, and it kind of has a different purpose, but it's definitely an area that I feel like I need to help with. Like I know I have all these tools and strategies from my counselor, but I also like there's just it's like changing that self-talk and like loving yourself and appreciating those are really important, yeah, so it's like a combination of all this stuff, but yeah, but and with all of those things, like you don't have to do it all at once like you, just do one thing at a time and just I'm like what I was saying to like one of my friends when she was in this place.
Speaker 1:She was like well, well, I need to get a psychiatrist, I need to take these meds, I need to do this. And I'm like what you need to do first is a Google search, that's all you have to do. Just Google psychiatrist in your area. And then I'm like and then send it to me and then we can go from there. That's it Like. It's kind of like that episode of friends where, like chandler and monica get married and chandler's like freaking out and ross is like okay, well, we're just gonna take it one step at a time. We're just gonna go take a shower. You know how to shower, right, yeah, he was like yeah. And then he's like okay, like what's the next step?
Speaker 1:and he's like you walk down the aisle and get married and he was like, but he's like, no, like you, it's. You've done all these other steps to get here. So, like, now we're at a bigger step, but like you've built yourself up now, yeah, to be able to see, like, okay, I've proven to myself I can take these other little steps, like I can just take one step at a time and get to the point where I can do it. And also, in that episode specifically, he was supported, like he was around, all the people that loved him, like people were there.
Speaker 1:And that's the same in this situation. Like, even when you think there's someone, like there's no one that is there that loves you, like there is someone there is. And if you feel like you don't have that, like I love you, I care about you, I want you to stay, I want you to take one more step. So, like, count me as the one that loves you. So, um, yeah, it just, it doesn't have to be so overwhelming. And like, eventually you'll get to the point where, like, I have a psychiatrist, a counselor and a mindset coach and I got all this stuff down like it would be so good, so, but you don't have to think about it.
Speaker 2:It's all like that. It's one step at a time. Yeah, yeah, and it's um, it's worth it, it's worth it, and the um. And I also say, when people think, like you know, I don't want to take medication, I don't want to take medication, would you tell someone that needed insulin that they shouldn't take medication? Yeah, so it it. It makes a tremendous difference. For sure, it's like it, for sure is life changing for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, for me too I mean I've taken on freaking every medication under the sun and even done TMS therapy so like. But then like, I finally found somebody that was able to help me figure it out. But it's if I feel like whenever people are like I, I don't want to take medication, I just I'm like what is the reason? Like I'm just curious, like why? Like, is it because you're afraid about what people are gonna think of? You like are you afraid of like we still have? We still have like stigmas, though.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we have to work through and also we have some limit, some limiting thing like because I have a depression diagnosis, I can't get health I mean life insurance, so that those kind of things we have to push back on that. We need some reform. Like you can't get life insurance, I'm under the care of a psychiatrist, I'm not in danger to myself, yeah, I need to be able to have life insurance, like that is so I think we've got those kinds of things. And like you can't go into the military, there's like things you can't do if you have a certain diagnosis or you have ADD, you can't go in the military, like things like that.
Speaker 2:So I think I think that there's some reform that needs to take place as well. And also I think, if you're feeling alone, you know there are so many people that deal with this openly that it's finding those people, listening to what they say, because you will feel so much less alone. You're like oh, I totally understand how that feels, so I think that's important too.
Speaker 1:Yeah for sure, and there's places to do that. I think that's important too. Yeah, for sure, and there's places to do that. I mean, for example, here I mean, like I'm sure, if there's a couple people that commented in the comments like there's gonna be somebody that's like, oh yeah, I feel that way, or like I am, I don't even have to check, I am sure that there's a Facebook group for it. Like there's Facebook group for freaking everything. So there's that. Or a Reddit thread. Like there's so many things now.
Speaker 1:Like social media can be like poison in some ways, but it can also be so good at like the. The purpose of social media is to connect people, so use it for that. Like there are things that can connect you to people who feel the way you do. So yeah, yeah, all right, thanks for being here. We hope you continue, yeah, to be here. Um, and if you need support, let us know. Um, in the description we will have a link to a little free coaching opportunity. So if you have questions or need coaching on something, you can fill out that form and we will reach out to you and go over it on the podcast, and then we'll also have all of the mental health resources that we talked about listed in the description, along with some other ones for maybe some more specific purposes and just links and stuff like that. So if you want to check those out, then they're there for you, but we'll be back next Monday. Hope you have a great day.
