Mind Your Heart
Welcome to "Mind Your Heart," this cozy corner of the internet where Trina Deboree and Emily Reneé —your real-life Lorelei and Rory Gilmore duo—come together each week to chat about everything from mental health to the daily nuances of life. In each episode, we peel back the layers of topics like anxiety, depression, PTSD, and eating disorders with warmth, understanding, and a touch of humor (because otherwise, this just sounds depressing)!
Trina, an educator turned entrepreneur and mental health advocate, joins forces with her daughter Emily, a mental health coach and anorexia survivor, to share their journeys and insights in a way that feels like a heart-to-heart with old friends. The goal? To spark conversations that truly matter and to create a space where laughter meets healing.
Let's navigate the ups and downs of mental health together, making each day brighter and each challenge a little lighter. Grab your emotional support water bottle, put in your headphones, and join us while we mind our hearts for chats that comfort and inspire.
Mind Your Heart
MYH 20: Finding Balance: Erica Butler on Eating Disorders and Body Neutrality
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Meeting Erica Butler at the Rose Retreat in 2021 was a serendipitous moment that set the stage for a transformative journey in understanding eating disorders. This episode takes you through our personal experiences, focusing on the struggle of balancing health with the triggers of fitness apps like MyFitnessPal. Erica and I open our hearts to sharing stories of finding suitable support systems and the crucial realization that food doesn't need to carry moral weight—it can simply be food.
The conversation with Erica provides deep insights into the nuanced relationship between nutrition guidance and eating disorders. We tackle complex topics such as the disconnection from one's body's energy needs and how some traditional dietary programs can inadvertently heighten food-related anxiety. Our dialogue highlights the need for sensitive, personalized strategies that foster a positive outlook on food while addressing co-occurring conditions like autoimmune issues. This episode emphasizes a recovery approach that nurtures mental and physical well-being without succumbing to societal standards.
As we shift the focus from external appearances to inner wellness, we embrace the empowering concepts of body neutrality and self-care. Through personal stories, we explore moving away from associating self-worth with appearance and examining the societal pressures that shape our views on beauty. The conversation also delves into generational perspectives on body image and the effects of evolving beauty standards. We aim to inspire a healthier, happier lifestyle, encouraging listeners to prioritize how they feel over how they look and setting a positive path for future generations.
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Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your favorite corner of the internet where we chat about all things mental health. I'm Emily.
Speaker 2:And I'm Trina. Together, we're like your real-life Lorelai and Rory Gilmore. Each week, we'll bring you real conversations about the world of mental health and we will peel back layers on topics like anxiety, depression and much more.
Speaker 1:We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff, the everyday stuff and everything in between. So grab your emotional support water bottle I know we have ours. Find your comfiest chair or keep your eyes on the road and let's get into it. Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Join us as we mind our hearts and hopefully make minding yours a little easier.
Speaker 3:How are you? How are you doing? We haven't talked in a while. Erica, this is my mom. Hi.
Speaker 2:It's wonderful to meet you, so nice to meet you.
Speaker 4:This is yes, I was so looking forward to this. It's so good to see you again. It was interesting. I was telling my husband I'm on a podcast today and he was like, oh, like, how did you get hooked up with that? And I was telling him about the Rose Retreat and how we met and it just is a cool full circle moment to be speaking with you both today.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure. Yeah Well, let's just like, let's just get started. I kind of want to tell that story of how we did meet because I feel like that was for me. That was such a pivotal moment in my journey with an eating disorder and learning how to love myself. So, yeah, let's just start. Welcome to the Mind your Heart podcast.
Speaker 4:I'm.
Speaker 3:Emily and mom, I'm Trina. Oh, am I frozen? You're frozen. Of course I'm frozen.
Speaker 4:We can still hear you, but you're.
Speaker 3:Okay, at least I'm like smiling while frozen.
Speaker 2:Yes, it didn't catch you in an awkward yeah, an awkward facial, oh man okay, wait, are we good?
Speaker 3:can you see me okay?
Speaker 1:oh, okay. Well, this is erica butler welcome welcome, erica um, I'm so excited to have you today.
Speaker 3:Um, we were just talking about how we met, which is like, really, it's kind of a wild story. I feel like, um, excuse me, like whenever I'm there's a couple people that I've talked to where I'm like, oh, the story of how we met is so cool, um, and I just feel like it was meant to be, like it was supposed to happen that way. I don't know what is happening with my camera, but apparently I just keep freezing. So Erica and I met when what year was that? I don't even remember what year it was, I believe that was 2022 or 2021.
Speaker 4:It was the fall. Yes, we were at the Rose Retreat. I was on a panel. You were in attendance. We met the night before, though, at that smaller event right?
Speaker 3:No, no, we met the day of the retreat at the end like before. I think it was like right before you were like leaving, because it was like after the retreat was over.
Speaker 4:Yes, because we had the Q&A panel and I said I'll stick around if anyone wants to come up and chat. And you were one of those people.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and back then I feel like it was 2021. I think it was 2021. Yeah, yeah, and back then I feel like it was 2021. I think it was 2021. Yeah, Back in 2021, I was working at the time with like a fitness coach and they had me like taking pictures of like my progress and like not being able to like eat a lot of certain things and like I was tracking calories. That was when I was like really in my fitness pal, which, like for anyone who has experienced an eating disorder, that that's like often brought up of like that's a, that's a trigger, Um, and I just didn't know like what I was doing. Really Like I was trying really hard to be healthy but, um, it was like I was. I just wasn't where I should be. I wasn't with the people that were educated in the way that I needed them to be.
Speaker 4:That's what stood out to me when we were first talking, because you were saying things like hey, I'm working with this coach and I'm you know, I I had an eating disorder and I've dealt with an eating disorder and I think it's still being activated, but I'm trying to be healthy. And you were trying to make sense of those two things at the time and it was, yeah, and even just feeling like you, we know, in when you're recovering from an eating disorder, like part of that is I need some structure, I need to understand what my body needs to eat and what it needs to be to nourish and sustained, and so it's like that program was providing it for you, but it was also inciting your eating disorder at the same time and you were just so stuck Like you knew it wasn't the right thing, but you didn't know what was and you weren't sure what you were looking for. But you were looking for something.
Speaker 3:Yeah, for sure, and I remember that.
Speaker 2:What's a fitness pal? Is that what you call it, my?
Speaker 3:fitness pal, my fitness pal. Yeah, it's basically an app like where you can track, like calories and like what you're eating and like, put it all in and it shows you, like, all the numbers with it.
Speaker 3:Yeah which, like is fine for people who are not experiencing an eating disorder and like can track that in. Whenever I started working with you, erica, I was, like I can't eat this, like this is bad. I remember like the biggest shift for me and working together was like understanding that, like food can just be food and that, like there, it doesn't have to be good or bad, so like that was a huge like Whoa does things, things for us, but the morality.
Speaker 4:We're removing the morality. Like food has certain properties, that does certain things you know we would have talked about. Like you need protein to break down an amino acid which is precursor for your neurotransmitters and it's important for muscle function and endocrine function. When carbohydrates you need the broken down glucose take across the blood brain barrier for your energy, for your muscles, for, you know, fitness, for living life. Like it was just there's all fatty acids, like all these purposes, but that like this is good, this is bad, it has to fit into this narrow range that I have for today. And it was just. It was leaving you at odds with what you were figuring out about yourself. It was so. It was like this external thing, like restricting what you were trying to figure out in yourself.
Speaker 3:For sure. Yeah, and I think, like now, now, like where I am, I'm like I even like catch like people that I'm with and they're like, oh, I can't have this, it's bad. And I was like, why is it bad? Like now I'm like is it bad or is it just like maybe we like don't eat it every single day breakfast, lunch and dinner, like. So yeah, that was definitely, it was a. It was a whole lot of like I was.
Speaker 3:I was in a state of confusion and also like just searching for something that I didn't really know like where to find it. Um, because I feel like, I feel like the resources for people who are experiencing an eating disorder are not there. I feel like they're not talked about, like, they're not like here, they are for you. You know what I mean. So I I remember like being at the conference and I was waiting in line for the bathroom, and that's when I met Mick and I have been following Mick for a long time and I started talking to her and I was like I know we're in the line for the bathroom, but I'm like it's really, really cool to meet you and also like do you mind if I tell you a little bit of like what's happening.
Speaker 3:And I was telling her and I just started crying and I was like I know this isn't what I'm supposed to be doing. And she was like so, like you can listen to like your intuition, like you, you know that this isn't healthy for you. And I was like, but I don't really know, like what to do. And she was like well, erica, who is here and she's gonna be on a panel, she's like she has like changed my life. And I was like okay, then I need to talk to her. Like yesterday. So I remember like walking up to you and being like I don't know what I need and I don't know what this looks like, but here is what I have.
Speaker 1:So yeah that's how.
Speaker 3:That's how we met. That's how it started.
Speaker 4:Yes, well, and I think you know, with the MyFitnessPal aspect and you know, trying to dial in on nutrition and calculate everything and follow it, it's like again, when you've had an eating disorder, you lose like what you're, you lose touch with, like understanding your body's energy needs. What kind of what's a breakfast look like for me? What's a lunch look like for me? Because eating disorders are characterized by fear of food and anxiety around food and overwhelm of decision-making around food. So that's where I think you got, you got trapped, where you're like okay, I need this to tell me what to eat, I will follow this program. But at the same time, there were yeah, there were just because eating disorders in and of themselves can be out of line with what else matters to you in your life.
Speaker 4:Like you, outside of your eating disorder, really solid foundation. You have wonderful partner, wonderful family faith, a good career, good confidence in yourself, except for around food. And so it's like I just feel like you were like trying to find a way to bring those things together. And that's where you know I was telling you I'm like you do need some structure, you do need some guidance and you know, without saying like, oh, you just need it from me, but no, you need it from someone that does understand eating disorders, because that structure and eating is temporary.
Speaker 4:I doubt now you're like counting out your grams of anything, but you know, once upon a time we would have been talking about, like gosh, you know, you really should add something on the side with that for your lunch. Or man, you know, I do think you need some of those foods to build up in your day. Or, oh my gosh, yeah, when you go to your family's house for Thanksgiving, like yeah, of course you're going to, you know, dessert can be part of your afternoon snack, but it can also just be just for joy and for fun and for part of the holiday. So just sounds like we had so much to talk about ahead. We didn't know it yet.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no for sure.
Speaker 2:I have a question so, um, so do you specifically work with people that have had okay, that's so eating disorders? So that is your especially, cause I, I'm, I'm just curious how it's, how, like, what is something that you approach differently?
Speaker 4:Because, because of that, yes, there's more this sensitivity to the internal thoughts and anxieties that eating disorders have. So, for example, maybe, like when Emily was working with that training program, they would have said you need to have six ounces of turkey and plug it into your lunch and da, da, da, da. And her you know and track that, and it would have been the calories and the grams and she would have been eating disorders can tend to create like an obsessiveness as well around food. A lot of that's because of that biological deprivation that's happening in the body and just the specific neural pathways that happen in eating disorders. So it so it makes someone susceptible to really almost obsessing too much into being overly focused on it. And so, while on one hand, we need to like provide some guidance and structure, so I might've been talking to her about like hey, like what are some sources of protein that you can put with your lunch, and we might've been talking about like the positive attributes, attributes of protein or the things that it does for us, because I have that sensitivity of we're eliminating the fear, we're creating abundance, not scarcity, but we're still providing some guidance, and so I wouldn't say it's always like totally at odds with what we might see, but it's more that mindset, that approach Plus. What's the end game, what's the outcome?
Speaker 4:So, someone with an eating disorder typically their goal is to not be obsessed with food and not think about food all the time. They might also be like, well, I would love to have a body composition change or some other things, but we have to set that aside for the time being and say, hey, we've really got to focus on recovering from your eating disorder. So then you know the. You know knowing how much protein you have at lunch is in service of meeting your energy needs and tolerating that anxiety, overcoming that fear of eating that food. And that's the recovery aspect, whereas you know well, maybe more of a someone else that has a completely different goal around why they would be paying attention to and changing any of the things they're doing with food.
Speaker 2:Okay, that that makes sense. I yeah that. I guess that part has always kind of confused me a little bit, but hearing that that makes sense, so thank you Absolutely Great question.
Speaker 4:Great question, cause I think that, yeah, I think there is a lot of um, uh, misunderstanding.
Speaker 4:You know, like, like Emily, like you were saying you're like I know that I need some help with food, but food is also such a loaded subject for me, like I don't know like what to do, to like find you know a way to get through this, and um, and so, yeah, we just have a different and we're, as a dietician that works with eating disorders, like I might be working with someone on their eating disorder and something else like me, and maybe you're dealing with some gastrointestinal issues or, and maybe you have an autoimmune condition or, and there might be something else going on.
Speaker 4:But there's just that, that sensitivity and that focus of hey, there's this co-occurring condition that might, you know, cause, cause, some issues. Another example of that is I have a client right now who he has type one diabetes and he just finished running a marathon and has an eating disorder, and so you know, what we had to focus on is like, okay, like fueling blood sugar regulation, planning out for his athletic endeavors, but also like how can he live, how can he live a little, how can he enjoy, how can he be careful and be planning ahead with his food, but not obsessing, and that's yeah, it's just so tricky how all of this?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it definitely is, even because, as I'm listening, I'm like, okay, I have an autoimmune, I have an autoimmune disease myself and like that. Sometimes I feel like like the like I don't feel fixated on food, but but when I, I feel like I can't sometimes even talk to Emily because I don't want to, to my goal or my whatever, to impact her in some kind of a negative way, and I know, I know that that it has like. I know that her dad and myself were very like we got to go to the gym, we got to work out, um, and very focused on that kind of mentality, not not telling the kids they needed to do that, but feeling like we ourselves. But it almost I don't. I do feel like there's been times where it felt like obsessive and for both of us, for him and for myself, and I won't speak for him besides that but um, but I know for me now it's more about like me feeling comfortable in my own skin and it's also me feeling emotionally stable, because I also have anxiety and depression and ADD and um, and like it helps me to relieve like some of that.
Speaker 2:It doesn't have to be like high intensity all the time and where I used to do a lot more of that like kind of hit classes. I don't. Now it's more. It's definitely I have a Peloton and I do like low impact rides and I lift weights and things like that, but it's not. I'm not like I can't go to the gym. What am I going to do? Like it's where I used to feel like that Now. Now I'm like it's not the end of the world. If, even if I take off a week, that's fine. If I take, you know I'll just get back, but it feels more like functional as well. Like you know, I'm a single person who, like, is over the age of 50. And so I want to be able to like do things.
Speaker 2:Even like we had a hurricane and I wanted to put I'm like I gotta get my shutters up, and and I I asked a neighbor to borrow his retractable ladder, which is a heavy ladder and I carried it down the street and I was like yes and um, and so things like like I don't want to not be able to do things for myself, so, if that makes sense, but I also do things like yoga because you know, balance is really important, as you know, the older you get, and things like that, and so I don't know, but I don't want to be obsessive, like I don't, like I know that's something that I have to watch, because I have in the past had difficulty realizing what was appropriate for for my body composition. Like I feel good, but people are like are you sick? And um, you know, things like that. So I feel like I have to be careful. I don't currently feel like like I have a bad relationship with food.
Speaker 2:I definitely have like eliminated some things like gluten because of my autoimmune disease. It upsets my stomach as well and and so. But I don't like beat myself up. If I ever occasionally have bread, like I'm like all right, I just know I'm going to have a stomach ache and my arthritis might act up a little, but um, but it's not the end of the world and so, so I don't know. So I'm listening and I and I'm like, yeah, does that make sense? I want to be sensitive. I want to understand um where Emily is coming from and where people. You know how people feel about this and I also know that for myself. I have to be careful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, absolutely. I think you're to paint it broad strokes. I think what we tend to look at and I feel like my client who's running the marathon is it a good example of like? Of like there's not a lack of intensity necessarily, like we can be into things, we can have hobbies, we can have passions, we can have pursuits and, you know, at times say, whoa, I got a little obsessive about that. You know, I need to pull back on that.
Speaker 4:I think what eating disorders? What we end up looking at is what feels positive and what starts to feel like pathological, and that's extremely subjective. But in general, eating disorders and I feel like I can say eating disorders generally because it is documented like changes in the brain that are quite predictable. So when I met Emily, I didn't know her yet, but I'm like, oh, I'm shooting the stuff and saying, oh my gosh, let me guess You're thinking this, let me guess You're thinking that. And she's like, oh my gosh, you're speaking exactly to my eating disorder, because it is an expression of a disease that is, you know, temporarily taken hold of the brain and so the thoughts around food and body are very predictable, and so what I tend to teach my clients is to separate out those things like how we said, like an eating disorder isn't, isn't aligned with someone's values, and so, like what I hear you saying about your story and the way you approach fitness and food and your autoimmune condition is like it's within your values. I want to feel well, I want to feel capable, I want to be independent.
Speaker 4:I'm looking at like functioning in my age and like you know and that would actually be if I was, if I was working with someone in an eating disorder they might be saying, hey, food really just all became, or exercise really became to me about losing weight or burning calories or having a certain aesthetic, about losing weight or burning calories or having a certain aesthetic. And I lost sight of why I ever started exercising in the first place. And same with food, you know, kind of like, oh my gosh, I became so fearful of eating that thing that there was that many calories. And so how do I find? How does food matter to me in my life and what purpose does it serve? And so, yeah, there's like this mapping that happens.
Speaker 4:And so I do almost think of like externalizing the eating disorder, like you and Emily can still convene, but there's a part of her brain that existed within her, that was really at odds with a lot of things and really took her off track. And so it's cool to think that, like now, um and I kind of want to hear more from you about this, emily like what you like, what is your like purpose for eating now, or moving your body, or caring for your body, like whatever that looks like, kind of how you were talking about, like your deload week of like, hey, I think I need to take off and I think I need to rest. That feels like a better to me this week instead of, or you know what, um, and that would have been probably, yeah, a huge part of something you would have had to create now within yourself. Emily, how have you kind of done that, or what are some things you've thought about?
Speaker 3:yeah, I think, um, I don't know, I feel like lately I am eating and like functioning, to like just be happy, like to just like exist and like be okay with whatever like my body has to give me. Um and I think that's something that I've really I've been more comfortable with lately is like understanding like okay, like I'm hungry, like I can eat, like it's gonna help me like get through the day and like I'll be able to go for a walk and do this and that, and it not be attached to my worth, which is, I think, like where it was when I was really in an unhealthy stage. Like I was like really focused on like if I have chicken nuggets for lunch, then like that's bad and I'm gonna gain like five pounds and then I'm gonna be ugly and then I'm not gonna be worthy, like those are the kinds of things that were in my mind back when I was feeling the way that I was feeling, whereas, like now, I'm like I'm gonna eat and that's it. Like I'm just gonna eat because I'm hungry to eat and that's it. Like I'm just going to eat because I'm hungry and like that's a good thing, and then I can move my body and exist and like be happy with all the things that she has to offer me.
Speaker 3:And I think, like when I went to a retreat in March in Bali, I I really learned like how to feel like comfortable in my own skin, like whatever that like looks like, and like taking away the value of like how I do look and not forcing myself to feel like I have to love it or that I am like upset that I don't like it. Um, just like being okay with whatever, like it being more neutral instead of like the focus being on how I look and how my eating affects how I look and how my movement affects how I look. Like taking away that, that whole piece of it, and just being like it doesn't matter, like how I look, it matters how I feel and it matters I'm taking care of myself and it matters that I'm healthy and I'm happy. And if that's, if that's the case, then like, however I look is is good enough.
Speaker 3:Period, like there doesn't have to be any comparison to me when I was 16 and me now, like it's, it's just, it's a lot of like taking away, kind of like the aspect of really the visual part for me, because that was, that was like the biggest thing in having an eating disorder. Like I feel like it was a lot of like. I want to be thinner, I want to fit society's standards of what I should look like or how I should fit into clothes or and stuff like that. So I feel like now it's like yeah, it's not about that for me. I don't know if that like answers the question fully, but like that's, that's how I feel now.
Speaker 4:Yeah, that's interesting. It it makes me think about Lexi and Lacey Kite, their work, it's their book and platform TED Talk. It's more than a body and it talks about how, as young women in our society at large, we are exposed to this idea of eventually objectifying ourselves, where we're not just, like, focused on what we're doing, but we're focused on how we look doing it. And they use the example a lot of themselves as little girls when they were swimming, and they're like we don't know, we don't you know, kind of recalling like what age they were, that then they were thinking about how did I look on the diving board?
Speaker 4:Instead of that just kind of blissful ignorance of just like a being in your body, and I think, yeah, if we live in our society, we're going to be exposed to those things, especially if that's your temperament to do so self-conscious, when we're at a risk for, like, really being impacted by that more greatly and susceptible, potentially, to an eating disorder or or, um, experiencing some symptoms of that for a time.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, that's a cool like antidote then that you're like wait a minute, I care about how I'm functioning, I care about how I feel, I care about how I'm taking care of myself and and and trying to remove that aesthetics. I think that can be helpful too, especially if, like you are at a place in your life where you just want to focus on being present and maybe liking how your body looks or appreciating it doesn't feel like a goal of yours or it feels like something that's more far off and so just really feeling quite neutral, like when you were talking about it, I just like like sounds liberating. It just sounded so freeing to not have to spend a lot of energy on that, but know that, like you're rooted in self-care.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and I think also like it's and self-care, yeah, yeah, and I think also like it's.
Speaker 3:It is like a feeling of like.
Speaker 3:It's not that I'm like I I don't like how I look or I do like how I look, it's just like not really paying attention to it for the most part, like it's not the thing that is at the forefront of my mind and that definitely like it.
Speaker 3:That also has like changed, I think, how I look, because when people now like are talking to me, I the one thing that I have gotten so often lately is like you're glowing, and I'm like like thank you, like that means so much to me because I'm like from the inside, like that is how I feel. And because I'm like from the inside, like that is how I feel, and because I'm not focused on how I look physically on the outside, like that's able to come out. Because before it was almost like I was like blocking that with like okay, well, I have to cover this up or I have to look this way to be able to feel good, whereas now I'm like I'm just letting what's like truly inside me come out and that be what people see, instead of really like the physical aspect of it.
Speaker 4:How has that felt for you to see that transformation in her Trina.
Speaker 2:Oh, I really love that and I agree with you Liberating, that is the feeling, and also inspiring, like that's an inspiring way of living, and I definitely, um, I cannot say that I do the same like I I do, you know, look at myself and think, oh, I need to do this or that. Um, so I, I think that I think that's beautiful and it is so just watching her like regain confidence in who she is, that is like that's a beautiful thing to witness, for sure.
Speaker 4:It does seem something that, generationally, I feel like feeling a shift.
Speaker 4:You know, I've worked in this field for almost 20 years and just even and then obviously, I grew up in this world as a early two thousands teenager and night late nineties, you know middle school, so not a friendly time then either. I'm sure you can relate to that time in your life as well. So it's cool to see, like, even though I think we're still a ways away but just that there's other ways that we can approach health and wellness without you know, focusing solely on you know, being smaller, even some of the things you named of like maybe you still deal with some of these criticisms that were probably instilled in your brain decades ago Just that you have a foundation of. What I keep going back to is being well and managing an autoimmune condition, feeling good, not having a sore stomach, you know, even if it happens sometimes. If I can avoid it, I'd like to avoid that feeling like that's focused to me on feeling good and I, I don't know, I like to think that things are changing.
Speaker 2:And I agree, I totally agree, because I'm, while you were saying that, I'm thinking, even you know, if you had three generations sitting here, which my mom is, she's 76. So she's not like so old that she wouldn't be sitting here, um, and she and it's. So it's a it's so different. It's different the way that I mean it was a lot of emphasis on looks for her and then you know that trickles down, so that. So then that emphasis is very obvious to me and I'm sure my emphasis on my cell of my body was an emphasis that I didn't mean to pass along to Emily and I tried to be conscious of it because I know what it did to me. But at the same time it's like I didn't do, I mean I, what I didn't. I needed to love myself If I had taught Emily that I loved myself the whole time instead of. That's really confusing to a kid when you, when they see their mom, you know questioning their own body, when the child thinks they're beautiful.
Speaker 1:And that's hard.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's really like, wow, you know we we don't mean to, as mothers, like you know, hurt them. Yeah, and you're right with society Like it was. You know I grew up in the seventies and the eighties and so you know Cindy Crawford was the person. So it, you know it was a. It was a different. It was a different world. You know people were trying to be as teeny tiny as possible and you did feel a lot of pressure. I always like joke about man. If I'd grown up with Kim Kardashian I would have felt better, at least about my backside, like I would have felt like, hey, this is all right, but so, you know, it's just.
Speaker 2:It's just, I mean, she's, you know, not perfect. I mean she's tries to be perfect, but she, you know what I mean. Um, it's just problematic things too, but yeah, it's just like I don't know. I do like that that that there is more focus on on who they, a person, is, rather than what they look like. I, I definitely think that's a change that seems to be getting better. We still have a long way to go with that, obviously, but I but I think, but it's better than it was when I was younger, for sure, although I will say, the thing that's really difficult is social media. Like I, I think I wouldn't have survived social media at a as a teenager. As a teenager, especially like maybe in my early twenties, it would have been all right, but, um, as a teenager it would have been all right, but as a teenager I would have been crushed. So I think that I think that's very difficult.
Speaker 4:Agreed. There's some ways that we can use media literacy now that I feel like didn't even exist before, like we didn't know that those magazine images were airbrushed, like that wasn't something that was really discussed, and so now I feel like there is this awareness of, like, the filters and how it's like fake in some ways or inaccurate, but I think we still, our brains, don't remember that when we're scrolling social media and we have so many more inputs of that too that it's just, yeah, it's like in some ways things have, yeah, shape shifted and and we have a far ways to go, and in other ways there's at least a little more presentation of some diversity and appreciation of that. That hopefully helps plant the seed for more to come.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and thankfully now too, like something that's becoming more common is that, like, social media platforms, like, require you to like, say like is this, is this AI? Is this edited? Is there a filter on it? Like on YouTube specifically, like, every time I upload a video for mind, your heart, or for a client, or whatever, it's always like is this content altered in any way? Like under these things. So it'll be like is your like face edited, is this edited, or whatever? And if it is, then you have to like, click that it is, or it'll get flagged. So, which I'm like. I kind of love that because I'm like then it's like painting a real picture which, like it's like you can have that content on YouTube, but you just have to be open about the fact that, like, this isn't actually how it looks like in real life. So, um, I like that.
Speaker 3:That's nice that transparency for sure yeah, yeah, because, like Erica, like you said, it's like you your brain doesn't recognize that immediately. So when like that's there somewhere to be, like okay, like this actually isn't real, just so you know, like it does give you a little bit like, oh, okay, so I don't have to strive to be like that because it's not even a real thing.
Speaker 4:You can do have pores, I guess yeah, yeah, yeah, seriously, yeah.
Speaker 3:Um, I I would love to like hear like your opinion and like kind of like the advice that you would give to someone like who is kind of like back. Like when I was starting out with you and I was like confused and feeling like just like not knowing where to go and like my biggest kind of hurdle felt like it was that like I thought food was good and bad, like what. What would you say to that person if they were like standing right in front of you, like what, what advice would you give them?
Speaker 4:I think that as far as the morality and food, so morality is saying this is good or bad and why. Why I think that way of thinking around food and I'm a dietitian, I'm trained in the science of nutrition and wellness I want people to be well. That's a huge reason that I am who I am and why I do what I do. But when we start tying that morality into it, it can get tricky, because then it becomes about you're a good or bad person for consuming that food, or we lose nuance and context. You know, okay, like how. You know, oh, like you know, carbohydrates are bad. That's been kind of the more recent thing We've also lived through. Low fat and fat is bad. And you know, oh, like you know, carbohydrates are bad. That's been kind of the more recent thing We've also lived through. Low fat and fat is bad, and you know whatever. There's a million of these type of trends and nutrition science is always evolving. So giving this person a very long answer, but I just I think there's a lot of nuance here and so I would want that person to examine what good or bad means around food to them, because most likely remember that I can guess what people with eating disorders are thinking because I understand the disease process of having an eating disorder and that's no offense to anyone. I mean I, I had an eating disorder myself. I love working with clients who have eating disorders. I have an understanding, I have a passion for it. But I think it is important to say your eating disorder is not you, that's not how you think.
Speaker 4:And so someone with an eating disorder is going to hear good or bad in the service of avoidance of gaining weight, fear of gaining weight, fear of a particular food leading to weight gain, and that is the absolute central belief and fear of an eating disorder. So, if, if, if, if someone says that food is bad, well, why? Oh, because it gives me a stomach ache, because of my autoimmune condition. I know I'm not a bad person if I have it sometimes it happens, but I know there will be consequences for the medical condition that I'm dealing with.
Speaker 4:And eating disorder is fear and fear of weight gain, fear of that food, and that's not even a vanity aspect and it is an anxiety disorder that has taken over in the brain. And so that's why, like overcoming your fear of foods, dismantling foods being good or bad, understanding how food can serve you in your body is the hallmark of the recovery, the antithesis of an eating disorder, and so I would be so excited for that person to be at the beginning of that journey. I would feel overwhelmed for them knowing how much they have ahead, but I would be hopeful about hey, they are starting to realize that the way they're thinking and feeling about food is at odds with other parts of themselves, and they want to find a different way to think about it and they're trying to make sense of it yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3:That it's at odds with the other parts. Yeah, that's really good. Oh, I love that. I'm just like so happy that you came and did this. Like I'm really really so grateful because I I was telling Jacob I'm like you know, like Erica was like a, like you were a turning point for me, like you oh, I could start crying. I I just like am very grateful for you and like and I've told you this before and now I'm frozen again. I just feel like there was.
Speaker 3:I just needed you, I needed your wisdom, I needed what you were able to offer and like for you to show up in a way that like I hadn't seen, like in, especially health care providers. Like, and like as a woman, like experiencing different health care providers making things worse and then showing up and it being like just such a safety, like such a safe person to talk to, and like like you're saying, like you're like I just know like how it feels it. It was, that's how it was. It was like every time I was like oh, this is how I feel.
Speaker 3:And then you were like is it like this and this? And I'm like yes, oh, thank you. Like it was like finally like somebody like was hearing what I was saying and like validating it and then also getting me to the next step. So I'm just I'm very grateful for you and like all that, like you are a part of and my journey and like I just think I'm like anybody listening to this. Just at least look into Erica, like follow her on Instagram, do whatever you need to do and if you need support, like you are the person to go to. That's how I feel, so thank you for being here.
Speaker 4:Absolutely. Thank you so much for having me and just these conversations that you are having. I think you know one of the things that you recognized early on in your journey was that there wasn't an awareness that you had. You just knew something felt off. And so these conversations that you all are having on this podcast are creating awareness in people and knowing that there's other ways to think about it and how to get to a place that feels good. Yeah.
Speaker 3:So before we go, we like to do a couple of like just lightning round questions, so I'm going to ask you just a couple random questions, if that's okay with you, sure, okay, um, I really. I read this question. I was like this is such a cool question. What would, what would it be if you had a personal theme song that played whenever you walked into a room?
Speaker 4:I'm trying to think of something that's not early 2000s rap, whatever you want, when Stefani came to mind for some reason. Okay, yeah to mind for some reason. Okay, yeah, I don't know which song of hers, but the energy that she put out in the early 2000s and the late 90s was like I'm here, I'm arrived.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:No, I know I was like. I read that question I'm like, ooh, what would it be like walking and being like, yes, here I am, am okay. Um, what's the first concert you attended?
Speaker 4:Aerosmith oh cool 90s Aerosmith big ones tour that's so cool, was it awesome it? It was, and I have cracked up seeing the memes of Steven Tyler now where I mean he's like an eccentric man that is an artist and a legend. But it's hilarious to see them like memes, saying like oh you know, he looks like your stepmom or something because he's got this long hair still and wild scarves and all the things that's crazy, so funny still and wild scarves and all the things.
Speaker 3:Okay, and then last one what is your favorite food? If you could pick any food or any meal, what would it be? Chicken Parmesan.
Speaker 4:Yum, italian through and through, and I know that's like a basic dish, but it's a classic that I've always loved.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah and done well. Oh, yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:So good.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you for being here. Is there anything that like is coming up for you, any events, anything that you want to share that like people can find you Great question.
Speaker 4:I mostly these days I have a couple of speaking events locally in Columbus, ohio. But online world, I really just been meeting with people one-on-one. I am on Instagram. Still, I haven't been as active recently, not because I'm not home, I've just been really busy with some of these more local events and I think I love social media. I love connecting with people. I love the variety of people that I've met through it.
Speaker 4:I just noticed kind of coming out of COVID I wasn't on it quite as much so basically that's a long way of me saying like I have my podcast, I have my Instagram, I have a lot of older posts that are just so valuable. I would repost them over and over again because there's so much there. Um, but anyone's welcome to reach out to me through my bio, through my website, if they want to work with me or they just they just have questions. Um, I can be reached directly through my website at aligned, aligned nutritioncom. Awesome, aligned with an L, e like a. Maybe you can put it in the notes with the E, d, not aligned nutrition. Aligned, yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, all of that will be um, in the description, um. So if you're watching on YouTube, it'll be in the description link to Instagram, her website, all that good stuff, um. And then if you're listening, it'll be in the show notes on whatever platform you're on. So, yeah, thank you again for being here. We appreciate you so much.
Speaker 4:Thank you for having me Wonderful speaking with you.
