Mind Your Heart
Welcome to "Mind Your Heart," this cozy corner of the internet where Trina Deboree and Emily Reneé —your real-life Lorelei and Rory Gilmore duo—come together each week to chat about everything from mental health to the daily nuances of life. In each episode, we peel back the layers of topics like anxiety, depression, PTSD, and eating disorders with warmth, understanding, and a touch of humor (because otherwise, this just sounds depressing)!
Trina, an educator turned entrepreneur and mental health advocate, joins forces with her daughter Emily, a mental health coach and anorexia survivor, to share their journeys and insights in a way that feels like a heart-to-heart with old friends. The goal? To spark conversations that truly matter and to create a space where laughter meets healing.
Let's navigate the ups and downs of mental health together, making each day brighter and each challenge a little lighter. Grab your emotional support water bottle, put in your headphones, and join us while we mind our hearts for chats that comfort and inspire.
Mind Your Heart
MYH 37: Ireland, UTIs, and Emotional Sledgehammers: A Candid Catchup
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What does it mean when someone asks "how are you" but doesn't really want the honest answer? Emily and Trina dive into this deceptively complex social interaction before opening up about their current mental health journeys.
Emily shares her recent struggles with depression while simultaneously battling recurring illnesses, a UTI, and infections from antibiotics. She candidly discusses her PCOS diagnosis and pre-diabetes, revealing the frustration of needing medication long-term when she'd hoped to function without it. This leads to a powerful conversation about accepting help when our bodies need it and the disappointment that sometimes comes with that reality.
The mood lightens as Trina recounts her recent European adventure through Ireland, London, and Paris. Her description of finding peace in Ireland's breathtaking landscapes and an adults-only infinity pool overlooking mountains serves as a beautiful contrast to daily life stresses. This travel segment highlights how sometimes physically removing ourselves from our environments can provide much-needed perspective and moments of tranquility.
The conversation then shifts to setting boundaries with family members who cause emotional harm. Using the vivid metaphor of someone "taking a sledgehammer to your safety," they explore how walking away from harmful relationships isn't running—it's making an active, healthy choice. They discuss the manipulation tactics used to make boundary-setters feel guilty and the importance of recognizing these patterns.
Throughout this heartfelt catchup, Emily and Trina weave together personal experiences with broader mental health concepts, creating a tapestry listeners can relate to. Whether you're struggling with health issues, difficult relationships, or simply feeling overwhelmed, their authentic sharing creates a safe space to reflect on your own journey toward peace and self-advocacy.
Subscribe now and join our community as we continue to mind our hearts together and hopefully make minding yours a little easier.
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Hey, welcome to Mind your Heart Podcast, your favorite corner of the internet where we chat about all things mental health. I'm Emily.
Speaker 2:And I'm Trina. Together, we're like your real-life Lorelai and Rory Gilmore. Each week, we'll bring you real conversations about the world of mental health and we will peel back layers on topics like anxiety, depression and much more.
Speaker 1:We're here to chat with you about the tough stuff, the everyday stuff and everything in between. So grab your emotional support water bottle I know we have ours. Find your comfiest chair or keep your eyes on the road and let's get into it. Are you ready, mom?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Join us as we mind our hearts and hopefully make minding yours a little easier.
Speaker 1:Hi, hi, welcome back, welcome to Mind your Heart.
Speaker 2:Welcome, welcome. So that was a big sigh Me I'm all right.
Speaker 1:I mean, I guess I'm yeah, I would like to discuss how, whenever somebody asks like how you are, like I have been so over, like I'm like literally lately I've been answering with do you want like the honest answer or do you like are we just doing like a little bit of small talk? Because I honestly hate that question, because sometimes when people say like how are you? I'm like I'm not great, but I know that's not why you're asking me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think that's yeah, whenever I ask somebody that I do want to know, like the actual, like how they feel, me too, but don't you think it kind of depends on if you're like in a rush, you're like like rushing by or no, for sure I think. Yeah, I mean like if I see a neighbor going around the corner and I'm trying to walk the dog and I'm like how you doing If they break into like a long, well, you know what? No, no, I think that would be all right. I that has happened recently, which is the reason I feel like people need to.
Speaker 2:Then, yeah, this person really needed to talk, and so we did.
Speaker 1:We sat I'll sit on the corner and talked so I get kind of like I don't know, like fed up with people asking me how I am, when they don't really want to know the answer yeah, because sometimes I'm not going to say that I'm just good because I'm not. Yeah, why? Not why am I not good or why do I get?
Speaker 2:fed. Why are you not?
Speaker 1:good, I don't know. Everything's just been a lot lately. Life feels like a lot. I've been sick multiple times over and over. Then I had a UTI and then I had an infection, um, and that was literally like back to back to back. Like I got back from Peru, I was sick for like two weeks and then I was fine for like a week or so and then Jake got sick and then I got sick, then I, then I, after that I had a uti and then, following the uti, I had a yeast infection from the antibiotics that I was taking, from being sick. Yeah, um, so like, health-wise, I'm exhausted. Um, planning a wedding is a lot of time and thoughts and decisions and money.
Speaker 1:It's a lot of money and yeah, I feel a little bit like in, like an in-between like with where I am like business-wise. An in-between like with where I am like business-wise because, like I like right now, like for my, for Emily, renee and Co, like I'm doing like work that is like not my favorite, like on all ends for not just one specific thing, like I don't like I'm doing VA work or website work or social media um, and that's like it's fine, like I know that like you don't love it.
Speaker 1:It's not your yeah, it's not, it doesn't light me up yeah and, but I need it in order to like be paying the bills. Um, but I really am excited about a business idea that I have for something in the future, but that's gonna take a lot of time, um to like get to the actual like end point. So, like, I'm in the very beginning phases of creating like a business, and part of that is learning, and so I have a part time job currently which I really like. Like I'm really happy and excited to be doing it, but I like want to like go to that job and then come home and then think about the things that I'm dreaming?
Speaker 2:yeah, not get to work on your VA stuff? Yeah, so does the job have to do with the business idea?
Speaker 1:yeah, mm-hmm. Yeah, like I'm learning, I'm learning how, what part? I don't know if I want to like say it because like, okay, I don't know, I don't know how, I don't know, I've only told a few people so far but, um, basically it has to do with the floral industry.
Speaker 1:Um, and then some do I know it because I feel I thought you told me it in the past, but maybe it's changed no, yeah, I think you know it okay, okay yeah, um and that's all that matters just kidding um, so I'm working at a flower shop right now and it's like nine to noon, sometimes nine to one, um, and we'll be more like during the holidays and stuff, but um which is so cool. And.
Speaker 2:I told you that your grandmother, your grandma on your dad's side, would be so happy.
Speaker 1:I told that to Nanny and she was like oh, yeah, yeah, Honestly, when you said that, like it made me, like it felt, like it had more meaning, like I don't know much about her because she passed away long before I was even born yep, um so, but like I'm like, oh, like I like that um but very sweet letters from her.
Speaker 2:I should um share them with you, yeah.
Speaker 1:I'd like to see that, um, but yeah, so I'm working on a flower shop and I really love that, and then I come home and then I'm like I'm tired because I'm waking up early, which right now I know that won't be like that forever yeah. I'm definitely like getting into a new schedule of like waking up at the time that I'm waking up, like I'm not waking up like at the ass crack of dawn, like I'm waking up at like 7 am so like it's really not that bad and but then, like I also want to go to Pilates and I also like want to plan the things of like my future business.
Speaker 1:But then I'm like, well, I have to do this stuff, yeah, that's like also making me money and it's just like it's hard because it's like I dread some of it, yeah, which like I don't want to do, like, but then at the same time, like I know I, you have to, you pay your dues, you pave the way, like that's how it goes, but sometimes I'm like, man, I don't want to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's, that's that's obvious, yeah, and that's not. It's not fair to like my clients, it's not. But it's also some of it isn't just the fact that I don't want to do the work, it's like that. I felt depressed lately, like I'm like in a season of like really trying to figure out my mental health and that's frustrating. Like I feel frustrated at myself and then I'm like frustrated at being frustrated at myself. Um, so it like some of the like dread of work is simply because I like it's hard for me to just like brush my teeth or like exist. So like thinking about doing something where I have to use brain power, like feels like, oh my God, because like I can barely muster up the energy to be able to get dressed and wash my face and whatever.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, that's a breakdown of all the things that's a lot and it's um, but I think it's it's good that you are addressing it and that you you and we've talked about this before having a support system and making sure that you have all those things in place, especially when you feel like, when, with depression, like slipping back into depression, is it?
Speaker 2:sometimes it's like a drastic feeling and sometimes it's a slow uh-oh, like I feel, like I'm oh, like I feel like I'm losing my grip a little more every day and um and so well, I adjusted my meds so like it's good, yeah, when, and like I had before, I had adjusted them to like not be taking one of the ones that I'm taking now because I was feeling better.
Speaker 1:But turns out I was feeling better because I was on that med.
Speaker 2:That med is really tricky because it slows your metabolism down.
Speaker 1:And I'm already having issues with all of that realm of things. So it's like a deep burden.
Speaker 2:No, because I take it too and I've done the same thing. I started weaning off of it. Yeah, no, because I take it too and I've done the same thing. I started weaning off of it basically and because I'm dealing with all these hormones and menopause stuff and it's frustrating me and so I'm like I don't need my metabolism to be stopped, when that already is an issue with menopause, and I was doing all right. But then I'm like, oh, no, nope, nope, so then I have to go start again. And then now I'm back to like still trying to wean off a little bit, but I can tell a difference.
Speaker 2:I mean, I felt good, but I'll give my catch up in a second. When I was on my trip, which I'll share about in a minute. Give my catch up in a second when I was on my trip, which I'll share about in a minute. But, um, but when I came home I was like, which makes me think that some of that isn't just chemical, it's situational for sure, a hundred percent yes because when I was, um, in my peaceful bubble, I I wasn't sad.
Speaker 2:I mean, there were times that I was even still a little bit lonely, because you take your feelings with you no matter where you are, even when you think that you can escape them. You can't. But it was definitely a thousand times easier to deal with. But also, at the same time, real life was not occurring for me Like I you know I was. I didn't have to worry about paying my bills and like all the stuff, because you know my, you know it was a very generous gift and so it was it's you know what I mean Like not real life. Things were not troubling me. So if everything was, was wonderful, then I'd probably be able to manage it a lot better. Yeah, but um, it is. It isn't all wonderful, it's, um, it's a lot. So I think. So, back to the like, it's important to make sure that you have all things in place so that you yeah and and also know that you may not always get it solved.
Speaker 2:Like it all, it might be an ongoing thing in life where you have to address different things yeah, I think that sometimes is like there's some mourning in that.
Speaker 1:For sure because it's like I think part of me, like when I was weaning off of the medication because I was still taking, like I'm taking, other medications.
Speaker 2:This was one of yeah, yeah me too.
Speaker 1:And like part of me was like oh okay, like I won't have to be on another medication, and I think, like, like as much as like I know we have talked about on here, like how like medication is important for some people and like that there shouldn't be a stigma on it. But I do also think, like like we want our bodies to be able to like function well without assistance sometimes, and it's like it feels like disappointing when you have to come to the idea of like well, like you're gonna need assistance.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and like, yeah, because it's not really just the truth of life? Yeah, it's not doing what you want it to do or what it's supposed to do. Or there's some, because for some people, you know, depression can be situational and it can be just a period of time, and then you need it can be seasonal too.
Speaker 2:You need some help, and then it's just for whatever bit of time in your life and then you go along. Bit of time in your life and then you go along. But for others you me included it isn't. It can be situational, but there's more going on. There's a like for me it's a low serotonin level, that is, my brain doesn't make enough. That's. There's nothing I can do about that. I can't be like make more serotonin to my brain. It just it's not going to, you know, and I can do things like exercise and eat well and like take care of myself. That helps support it. But but it's still the fact. This is the fact.
Speaker 1:So yeah, and like that, on top of finding out I have PCOS and I'm in pre-diabetes is like a lot of information and a lot of things to be like. Oh well, your body is also not doing this and it's also not doing this either, and now you're gonna have to be on more medications, or, um, you going to have to go to more doctor's appointments, or so.
Speaker 2:PCOS for people that don't know, is polycystic ovary syndrome.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 2:So you've got some health things on the up ahead that, but again, you have a good support system, yeah, yeah, which is crucial, for sure, and it's a and to like find out now not, yeah, in the middle of trying to have a baby and um and all the and later and actually have diabetes or um is thank goodness. But one of the things is is is that you have to advocate. I've been telling my friend this you have to advocate for yourself on a regular basis, yeah, and sometimes you have to find the right people.
Speaker 1:That's so hard. Yeah, it's so hard.
Speaker 2:It's so hard you have to hear the right message or you have to be open to like huh, maybe this isn't normal, maybe this is different than maybe my mom does know what she's talking about. I'm just kidding, it's just knowing that I, you, and then finding those people that will that know what they're doing, because so many people don't or not getting the answers. I mean, even for myself right now, I too had had like the worst UTI I've ever had, um, which is a urinary tract infection. Um, oh my, just awful and it's. And so I've been having this issue for like weeks now, because then it went into another one and then I don't know what's going on.
Speaker 2:I can't get my doctor to call me back, and so if I just went along with, if I just accepted that, like most people do, then I wouldn't have get an appointment. So now I've got to go to a specialist, which, a gynecologist, is a specialist, but another specialist where I have to pay out of pocket, because they're the only ones that are paying attention and answering me and that's frustrating. So it's like the system is just just like in the education system. The medical system is just as messed up and the things that they have to do, and they have to try this first and do this or whatever. It's just, when you standardize something, you can't differentiate for people, and and so when we did, when our goal is constantly standardized, standardized, standardized, that means everybody gets the same thing, but everybody doesn't need the same thing.
Speaker 1:It's equality over equity.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's frustrating, it's really frustrating. So I am yeah, I'm really annoyed myself right now about that, but it is finding the right people, and I was just kidding about listening to me. I think life, you know, we come to different things at different parts in our life because of our experiences, and sometimes we definitely fight things as well because of our experiences, and so it's hard to. It's just like anything else. You have to hear things at the right time in the right way, maybe repeatedly sometimes. So I think as long as you are taking and you are you're taking you're like, okay, here we go. And I mean that's not fun, it's hard. Any kind of medical health, women's health stuff is. It's a lot.
Speaker 1:For sure. Yeah, it is definitely a lot, and it's also like it's not um, there's just like a lot of shit that comes with it. There's a lot of emotion that comes with it. There's a lot of like, a lot of advocating for yourself, like a lot of like having to do your own research, having yeah, and when you're depressed you don't feel like doing it yeah, you're like work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's a.
Speaker 1:It is a lot of work somebody else went to school for that and paid lots of money and put themselves in debt to be able to do that and then they're not able to. Yeah, I'm not able to, basically like, unless you're paying an arm and a leg and selling your soul. So it's, yeah, it's difficult and frustrating and exhausting. When you're already exhausted and then you're getting into a situation that's also exhausting, it's like I'm tired of being tired, of being tired, yeah yeah, the tired is like so many layers down that you don't even know what to fix first.
Speaker 2:It's like when you move and you don't know where to unpack first or where to start. It's. It's a lot, so that's a um, it's a big update yeah how are you?
Speaker 1:how was your?
Speaker 2:My trip was really great. Where did you go? Tell us where you went. I went to Ireland, london and Paris. We had to go to Newark and then Newark to Shannon. That was a direct flight, getting out of Tampa and out of Newark or whatever. That was a big pain. Newark was a mess and it was like constant delay after delay, after delay and we ended up being like they were flying one flight out and they took us off the flight we were supposed to be on and put us on the last flight and we had like crappy seats and very uncomfortable and but you know what, we made it. So I was like in the end we made it. And then the flight from Newark to Shannon was, I guess, like six and a half hours and I just slept the whole, almost the whole time. So that was great and the most comfortable. That was awesome and then that was so good. And then so we went.
Speaker 2:The first we had to drive to Galway, which was like a little like a little city in the um, like it's not North, it's not Northern Ireland, ireland, it's still on the West coast, but it's a little bit, a little bit closer to in the northern direction. And then so that was fun. And we saw the Cliffs of Moher, which were beautiful, and I went to the Aran Islands and rode a bike, like rode a bike all around the island for hours and then saw the Cliffs of Moher from the bottom and that was really cool. And then drank a Guinness in a pub with an Irishman who was like generations of Irishman and he was great and that was fun and that was just a lot of fun. Steve and Nanny, they liked that. I think they liked Steve liked Galway the best.
Speaker 2:I actually liked Killarney the best, because then we got in the car and we drove to Killarney, which is down more and still in the West, and it was just so beautiful I stayed in called the Lake House Hotel, which was like owned from generations of people that owned the hotel, so it was like a family-owned hotel and you could tell, and it was stunning like the mountains and the lake and it was just absolutely beautiful. They shared property with the Killarney National Forest or National Park and that was unbelievable. And then I hiked the Gap of Dunloe and that was really cool. And we went to Dingle and drove the Ring of Dingle and that was breathtaking and also terrifying.
Speaker 2:I drove on the left side of the street and I did a good job and Steve was so nervous but I was like he hit a sign. But I did not hit a sign, he hit a sign. So at one point I stopped in the road as far over to the left as I could to let other cars go, because there was no way we were going to go together. It was so skinny, so narrow, it was crazy, and so it was, but it was just.
Speaker 2:I didn't want to leave, like the people were just the best and it was beautiful and I didn't want to leave. I felt so, so at peace and excuse me. And then we flew to London and we were in London for several days and we went and visited the house where, where I was little, like not the longest, I mean like I was like three months or something like that, or 11 months when we moved there and I left when I was like almost five and Dex was born there and it was a little. It took us forever to get there. I thought I was going to go insane. And we were there for like, okay, here's the house, all right, let's get back in the car for three hours.
Speaker 1:And so we did go to like drive for six hours to be somewhere for five minutes.
Speaker 2:It's like it wasn't the same. We did eat it, like eat at a pub, which was very slow, like everybody in europe goes at their own pace, oh yeah, and they're not rushing around like we are in america.
Speaker 1:They're so much more like honestly most countries are like that yeah like, like, it was like that in Peru. They were on Peruvian time, like there was no timeline, everything was slow.
Speaker 2:It was slow. I was fine with it because we'd been driving for so long, but then we had reservations at night to see, or we were eating, and then we were seeing on the Devil Wears Prada, which was so good, it was so good, so it was a lot in one day. Like I was very tired, I almost decided I'm going to go back to the hotel. I don't want to go to the play because I'm so tired. But I'm so glad that I didn't do that because it was excellent. And then the next day I basically just like walked all around London and I spent like hours just walking around and that was fun. And then we saw Matilda, which was very cute, but we had to leave really early the next day, so we left at intermission, which I was like oh, we were so rude, but it was. I was like I'm tired.
Speaker 2:So we left and then we got on a train, which was really cool. It's like it travels at like some crazy over 100 miles per hour, but you can't really tell. You're just like sitting there. And then we ate on the train.
Speaker 2:And then we got to Paris and then, like I of course I'm like I want to walk around and we went on a river thing down the scene and I saw the Eiffel Tower and then I just put stuff in my GPS and just walked all over the place again because I'm like I just need to be constantly moving because I already do so much sitting and I bought some children's books in French and I bought some books in London kids' books in London and I was just that was so cool and yeah, and I just spent some good time with Nanny and Steve and I was just so thankful for that experience because it was just very and I had a special moment with Steve and it was just, it was a nice, it was a nice time, it was just really. Yeah, I was like, oh man, we came back and then it was like slam right into reality, yeah, Normally how it goes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it was good. I tried to stay in in my bubble for a little while, but that didn't didn't last very long, it's hard to do when you get back, because it's like life just lives yeah, I was very happy to see kobe, though it was, um, like, like I almost jumped on top of him.
Speaker 2:I was just, I think I was more excited to see him than he was to see me, because it just had been so long. I haven't, like slept without him for that many days, so it was that was crazy. And then it's so hot, so hot here and it was so beautiful there. So hot, so hot here and it was so beautiful there, um, I mean, it got warm in London, I mean in Paris, but it was nothing like this.
Speaker 1:This is brutal and the thing I think, the thing that, like people don't understand about Florida is like they're like, oh well, it's not even like, sometimes it's not even in the hundreds, but like the humidity, with it being in like the high 90s and recently it did get in the hundreds, is like it feels like you can't breathe like oh yeah, it feels like you're in a sauna brutal and people don't know until they come.
Speaker 1:Because, like, I even had told this to teresa before and she, when she was in miami last year I don't know, it was like maybe a year ago she was in miami and I think it was august and she was like, oh my god, like it's so hot, and I was like I told you, like I told you it was hot, and she was like well, like I'm used to arizona heat, so like I thought different, it wouldn't be dry heat is yeah, and I was like dry heat is not the same as Florida humidity heat, because it's so much worse Like I would rather it be dry and hot than wet and hot.
Speaker 2:Yeah, one of the things I didn't mention was actually my favorite thing. Besides the, there was a lot that was my favorite. Ireland in Killarney were definitely my favorite, but the hotel had a separate pool that there was no kids. You couldn't have any kids at the pool and you had to pay and you had to book a time and I was like what? And so I think it was the day that I hiked.
Speaker 2:It was it was the day that I hiked in the forest and went to the Torque waterfall. So I walked for over three hours and my hip hurt. So I came back and I did yoga and then I saw no one was in the pool, no one was in the hot tub. So I went to the desk and I'm like, how does this work again? And she's like she actually let me, ended up letting me go at that time. And then she's like you basically gave me extra time because you only have an hour and a half and it's 20 euros, and I was like, okay, so I did it. It was worth every cent, because first I got in the hot tub and I floated in the hot tub and it was just glorious and then I got in the pool, which was an infinity pool with the mountains and the lake. So it was so stunt, I'm actually cried. I had like emotional, an emotional experience in the pool and and it was kind of raining and so it was just like, and it was just, the temperature was beautiful and also the pool is warm and and it was just oh gosh, it was so great.
Speaker 2:And then I got out and I got in a sauna. I got in the Himalayan salt sauna and I was like, oh gosh, this is Florida, Let me get out of here. So I didn't make it very long in that. And then they had the shower experience, which at first I was like what, who needs a shower experience? There was three different showers and then you got in each one and it had three to five different settings. So like I clicked the first thing and one of them was, like you know, Himalayan mist, and it was like you know, like being in a rainforest, and you're like, oh, this is nice. And then one of them was a glacial ice, whatever, and it was like being in a cold plunge. It was it literally. I was like like I couldn't breathe. It took my breath away, it was so cold and I tried to like stay in there as long as possible. And then I was like.
Speaker 2:Himalayan mist. Himalayan mist. It was so cold and they just had all these different I don't even know how to describe it. Those are the two I remember the most, but it felt so good, it was like. It really was like an experience. And then I got out and they had this what is it called Meditation room, and it was again looking out at the mountains and the lake and people were just. Some people were reading and I just sat and I prayed and I thought and I it was. That was the best, that was definitely the best.
Speaker 1:So nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it was, it was nice. So that was really, that was really, that was really great. I loved that. Um, yeah, so, but now here we are, back in the, here we are, we're at the beginning of um school for a lot of teachers and, yeah, just crazy like I mean it's august're in August yeah, it's August.
Speaker 1:I feel like July was so fast.
Speaker 2:I know July did go by fast. And now here I mean Jackson and Jackson's 21 tomorrow. Like that's crazy that is crazy, it's time. Time goes so fast. I guess it won't be August 1st when this comes out. It won't be whatever Monday is. Yeah, yeah. So that's a catch up.
Speaker 1:That is a catch up.
Speaker 2:I left out some of my rough parts.
Speaker 1:You didn't say really how you were. You just told us about your trip yeah, I'm all right.
Speaker 2:I have had a um upsetting thing go on with with my son and so that's been hard, it's been super hard, it's weighed on me and um, it's been really, yeah, really difficult. I think it's really difficult when you I don't know, when you just love someone so much and you feel like you give, give, give and you try to do your best, even though you know you've, I know I've messed up a million times and I've let you guys down in so many ways, down in so many ways. But I think you would both agree that I've at least tried.
Speaker 2:And Jackson and I have been in a similar situation to where we are right now, when he was like around 14, 15 years old and he totally shut me out of his life for like nine months, and after he came home to me and I was like willing and unconditionally loving and accepting, we talked a lot about that and I told him how hurtful that was that and I told him how hurtful that was. Like one of the worst things I think someone can do to me is kind of shut me out, like abandon me again. Like I've already been, I've already already deal with abandonment issues and that is very hard for me and you know, and even when not with you, I remember one time we got into an argument and you're like I'm not leaving, I'm here, I'll talk to you, whatever you said, and I was like okay. So it like allowed me to know that, even though you were mad, like you were just taking space to like regroup and to think because you were hurt, but you didn't need to hurt me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. In the meantime and yeah like there was communication about what was going on and it was also yeah, I remember Cause like I also like know, like I know how you are, like I know, I know you, so I'm like well, I'm not going to just be like Like I know you, so I'm like I'm not going to just be like he, he, he, like I'm not going to respond.
Speaker 2:I'm going to leave her. Yeah, and he left me in the middle of the night, so I mean he knew exactly what he was doing.
Speaker 1:And, like, my intention in that situation was not ever to hurt you, it was just to figure out a time to communicate where I was ready and you were ready. We both needed the time. It was helpful.
Speaker 2:It was very helpful. It ultimately was very helpful, but anyway. So he and I have talked about he knows this about me, and so to to do it again. However, many years later, after we've been through so much, so many conversations, so many really smart, emotional, intelligent things that he has said and what we've talked about, that we've worked through, and then I just feel like I'm I, this is a different person, like this feels it's not a different person because there's been evidence of some of his behavior towards you all along. I guess it's maybe the first time I have seen it so glaringly.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and also that it's an active choice, yes, choice yes, because like yes, I think, like um, it's easy to pin, like some of the behaviors between him and I when we were younger, on like him being young yeah and like not knowing better.
Speaker 2:Which like is not necessarily true like no, it's not necessarily true, but you're right, regardless it's. And also there was a lot of guilt. I had a lot of guilt, feeling like I didn't want I, I knew, he knew that I that I picked you in so many situations and and so, and I was talking to my friend carol about that today and she's like, and rightfully so, and I'm like you, right, but I never put that part in. I just stopped it at that, like you picked one child over another.
Speaker 1:Because that was used as a weapon against you, which is the same exact thing that dad did to me Whenever I decided not to live with him. It was just you decided to leave me and not live with me Instead of yeah, rightfully. So, Like you didn't deserve for me to live there when you created an unsafe environment for me. So like, sometimes there are things where, when somebody's saying the truth and it's a hard truth like you have to also be like okay, but that's true for a reason. Yeah, like it's not. You're not, you're just saying that in a way where it doesn't paint the whole story. You're making yourself sound like you have no accountability. And because when he used to say, well, you're the one that decided that I didn't want to decide to not live with my dad, yeah, I, that was the last thing I wanted to choose when I was 14. Yeah, so like me deciding quote-unquote, deciding that was not, that was not something that was just on me.
Speaker 1:Like it's when somebody puts that out there, like they're not taking accountability for their side Of why that is happening. So in this case, jackson used to say Like, oh, you always pick Emily. You always pick Emily Because you're mean to people. When you're mean to people, they don't want to do things with you. They don't want to talk things with you. They don't want to to talk to you about things. When you insult people or put them down, that's that doesn't know what. That nobody is going to pick that, yeah. So it's like not taking accountability for the part that they have in it and then putting it all on you and then and then, because you and I are empathetic people, we're like oh yeah, I did decide that, or I did do that. Yeah, you did, but there was a reason for that, and the accountability is not, is not being taken from the person that puts you in a position to have to make it a safer choice for yourself. Ultimately, what they should be saying is you made a healthy decision. Fuck you, yeah. And that I mean.
Speaker 2:That's what narcissistic people no, and manipulate, manipulate, manipulation.
Speaker 1:It's actually textbook manipulation, yep, which is insane yeah, and that always used to make me so mad. I would get so angry because he would wash jackson's brain with. Emily chose this, like she chose not to be with you, and this and that um and same, yeah, and I chose to leave yeah, it always felt like I didn't choose this.
Speaker 2:I didn't yeah because yeah, when, while I'm listening to you, my heart feels sad like I'm, because I it it's upsetting to think about you feeling like you had to make that choice at that age. Yeah, um, choice at that age, that's sad and I'm also relating because I'm like I didn't want to be divorced, I wanted to be married. So I felt like I had to make that choice for everyone's sake, and it wasn't easy at all. There was nothing easy about it. So it's yeah, it is really just a total denial of your accountability in the situation, and so you're right, because it feels like an active choice. I can't dismiss it as childish, whatever, or immaturity, or because they've been hurt or dealt with trauma.
Speaker 1:This is who you're choosing to be right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is who you. Yes, you are now 20, are going to be a 21 year old man, and this is who you have chosen to be.
Speaker 1:And with.
Speaker 2:When another person says, well, they were just disrespectful, I'm like, no, it wasn't just disrespect, it was emotional abuse and that is unacceptable. And because I have been so far, I can't accept it from anyone, even my own child.
Speaker 1:But you shouldn't. There's no. You can't accept it. You shouldn't accept it from anyone. No one should accept emotional abuse from anyone, no matter who it is. I don't care about that whole family. Blood bullshit, it doesn't matter. Whoever is being abusive in any form emotional like mental, physical they don't deserve your energy, your time or your presence. There's no, but they'll make you think that you do. Yeah, and that's where like it's hard, because the part of you that wants to be there feels like I need to. I need to be there. I'm the mom or I'm the daughter. I still want to be around my dad, it doesn't matter. He didn't deserve that and he's not acting deserving of that space. Now, when somebody is coming in and taking a sledgehammer to the safety, then you leave, and that's not running away away, it's making an active, healthy choice.
Speaker 2:That is really, really hard yeah, that was a really good way of explaining it taking a sledgehammer to your safety or your peace yeah, because you can't rip the sledgehammer from their hands.
Speaker 1:No, because that's even more unsafe. Like then you're walking for somebody with a weapon, yeah. So instead you have to make a choice to be like am I gonna keep picking up these things that keep breaking, or am I gonna walk away and hope that one day they decide to put down the sledgehammer and walk in calmly?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sucks, because it's like completely out of your control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure. And I started going to counseling again at your request, which was good, which was you setting a good, firm boundary, and that was hard, but it was necessary. And one I just forgot my whole point. Yeah, I forgot what I? I don't know what I was saying.
Speaker 1:That you started going to counseling?
Speaker 2:yeah, but right before that, what was I saying? Um?
Speaker 1:I mean, we're talking about being in an unsafe space and making the choice to leave and Making the choice to leave.
Speaker 2:And yeah, I don't know, I left.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:It's gone. Yeah, I don't know. Either way, it's, it's a hard. It's a hard, it's been a hard road. Yeah, so having a break from it and like was nice, yeah, it was, it was really nice I think that's needed sometimes, like yeah sometimes we just need to disconnect and like be away from the reality of things honestly.
Speaker 1:That's be away from the reality of things honestly. That's one of the things that sounds like funny overall, like our. One of the things I'm looking forward to most about our wedding is that after the wedding, we have booked like a hotel like we're staying in, like this nice hotel, um, like from the day, like the night of our wedding until like five days after, and it's like a resort and spa. And I told jake I was like I know we have friends and family coming from out of town. I don't want to see a single person during that. I'm like I don't care if they say that they're here for this or that, don't care, come earlier. I'm not. I'm not spending time with anyone, but my new husband at that point and myself and we're going to be in a bubble of just being married and being away from everybody and all the chaos and all the year-long planning that we just did, and I was like I want it to be like peaceful and literally to just be in a bubble for just those five days. I'm like.
Speaker 1:I'm not asking for much.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think that's understandable and, honestly, when we were overseas I said that to, I think, to Nanny, nanny and I talked about this I said I like I could have seen you guys going to Paris, like getting married in Paris, and then just having a trip and probably spending less money and it being being a hundred percent less of a stressful thing, because I could, just I could totally see you, um, enjoying it like I could see you like really loving it yeah yeah definitely been personally during this whole process.
Speaker 1:It's like how much do I want a wedding?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's understandable, it's a apparently that's also a common feeling.
Speaker 1:So I'm not. We are, we're having a wedding, we've, we've committed we're. We're this far in like yeah, I gotta keep going.
Speaker 2:Great, Like I'm excited whatever.
Speaker 1:But I was talking to one of my friends who, um got married recently and she was like there were multiple times where we almost called the whole thing off and like we're like we're going to the courthouse and just going on a trip and I'm like, oh yeah, I understand why you would feel like that yeah, me too, me too, for sure.
Speaker 2:And the afterwards. I mean I remember when we because the night of our wedding did we? Yeah, no, we stayed at the hotel where the reception was. But then the next day we came home, got our stuff and then got in the car and drove to New Orleans. We went to Biloxi, mississippi first. But I remember climbing in the car and being like don't talk to me Like I just wanted to go to sleep Because I had had pink eye and I had taken too many steroids and so I was exhausted. And you know it was my first year teaching and I got married. I know it couldn't have been more insane and I was just exhausted. So I know what you mean. I mean I was fine by the time we got to New Orleans and Mississippi, but I was not, I was not fine at the beginning. So I understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know our wedding planner. She was like when I got married, like I slept for like a whole 24 hours the day after and I was like, yeah, that's pretty much the plan. It's exhausting the plan.
Speaker 2:It's exhausting. Well, it's gonna be. It's gonna be great though yep all right, I think this was a good catch-up episode and we can end here.
Speaker 1:Yeah sounds good to me. Daisy, this is a gross little ending ending, but it's a little bit lighter. Um, my cat Tebow, um threw up on the carpet and I got home in a rush like I had. I had an appointment before this and we were supposed to film at one and whatever it's. We started at 1, 30 and um, and so I was like I'm just gonna have to put like a bowl over the throw up so that I can clean it after, because daisy will eat it. And I've been sitting here this whole time right next to it and daisy is seriously sitting like eyeing this bowl with her paws like right in front of her face. Yeah, eyes are like she's like locked in on this bowl and I'm like you are so disgusting, oh, so gross waiting for me to like make a misstep and accidentally move this bowl over.
Speaker 1:She's literally sitting by my feet, which is near where the bowl is, and I'm like disgusting, so we will on that note gross.
Speaker 2:That is so, so gross. Yeah, it's really gross. I don't think my dog is that gross I don't think you know, because he has puked before and he's never eaten it. He's never gone back and eaten it. Yeah, daisy has, and it was his whole full food like and some saliva yeah, daisy's nasty she'll, she will literally eat anything yeah, that's funny. Yeah, well, all right, that's a great way to end. See you next time bye. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, well, all right, that's a great way to end. See you next time.
Speaker 1:Bye.
